Told mum I'll go no contact if she cancels POA

[Morango]

I have been wrangling with my mother for years over getting a POA done. I have assured her it is for the future and needed to be done before a crisis occurred.
She refused for years to admit she had memory issues and has been quite horrible over the years.
Finally she agreed it was in her best interests and I made arrangements which included family members and I taking time off work and driving many hundreds of miles to do it.
We made sure she understood what she was signing and it took place in the home of a dear family friend whom she trusts and who acted as the certificate provider.
Now the OPG has written to all of us she has said I have done this behind her back and she is going to cancel it and I am only after her money.
When I reminded her of the circumstances of the signing she did start to recall and then admitted that I wasn't after her money.
I told her she was within her right to cancel it but that if she did I will have nothing further to do with her.
She is quite a horrible selfish person and part of me hopes she'll call my bluff.
Not sure why I'm posting about this but reaching out I suppose.

Is some of her thinking you are after her money part of dementia? DF got quite paranoid with his memory issues.
Try and keep the POA in place if you can. We couldn’t persuade DF to have one and it was an absolute nightmare when we thought he might need to go into a home and he didn’t have mental capacity to sort out his finances.

If I were in your shoes, I'd send a note to everyone that she sent her message to saying that you were only after her money, clarifying that you are not after her money, this was done with her full knowledge at the time and while she can decide to cancel the it but if she does, you have advised her that you'll have nothing whatever to do with her in the future - i.e. no care, no visits, nothing.
You're sending them this note because you just want them to be aware of the other side of the story and it's entirely up to her what happens next.
You want to clear your name where the 'money-grabbing' is concerned as it is not who you are.

That's what I would do.

Sounds like she's already living with some degree of confusion so that outburst is probably par for the course.

POA requires the subject to be able to fully understand what they're signing when it's signed. Maybe she's moved beyond that now so it may not even be possible for her to cancel.
I've no legal knowledge but have already done POAs for DH and me after the nightmare of my DM not having one.

Things are obviously difficult for you but I'm not sure cancelling it will improve anything.

Mum forgot all about it in the six weeks between signing it and the paperwork landing in the post. She was raging because from her point of view it had all been done behind her back and was some devious plot to get hold of the house. It was only because she had received the paperwork that the plot had been revealed. It was a really difficult day but I suggested we talk about it calmly the next day when she'd come off the boil and I wasn't so hurt. I put the PoA in a safe place overnight and by the morning she'd forgotten anything had happened.

It's easier to think it's been done in secret than accept that you can't remember, it's the same as having people breaking in without leaving a trace and stealing from the fridge. It provides an explanation for what has happened that doesn't bring memory into it.

I got my mum to write on the envelope what it was, with the date and that it was to be kept safe in the hope that if she came across it she would recognise her own handwriting and we wouldn't go through the upset again.

If she cancels it does she know that if something happens such as a stroke she'll be paying a lot of money for an application for deputyship? Someone would have to look after her affairs, would she rather it be you or some random person? I stuck to the stroke/car accident/banged head scenarios as they could happen to anyone without warning and avoided the whole "there's nothing wrong with my memory" discussion.

Sounds like she needs a capacity assessment?

@Knotaknitter thank you for responding it sounds like you have been in the exact same position as I. Yes, it's very hurtful to be accused like this and it's not the first time.
I have used examples which avoid mentioning memory and explained that not having it will make things a nightmare for me.
I'm a full time working parent of an 11 year old with ADHD and think she's being so selfish. She says she loves me but it's just words really.
She has a diagnosis of Alzheimer's dementia and I recognise that a lot of her behaviour may spring from that but she was always a bit horrible so it's potentially just magnified it.
I do want to be a good daughter and ensure she's ok but not at the expense of my own mental health and my daughter's well being.

@Knotaknitter

Mum forgot all about it in the six weeks between signing it and the paperwork landing in the post. She was raging because from her point of view it had all been done behind her back and was some devious plot to get hold of the house. It was only because she had received the paperwork that the plot had been revealed. It was a really difficult day but I suggested we talk about it calmly the next day when she'd come off the boil and I wasn't so hurt. I put the PoA in a safe place overnight and by the morning she'd forgotten anything had happened.

It's easier to think it's been done in secret than accept that you can't remember, it's the same as having people breaking in without leaving a trace and stealing from the fridge. It provides an explanation for what has happened that doesn't bring memory into it.

I got my mum to write on the envelope what it was, with the date and that it was to be kept safe in the hope that if she came across it she would recognise her own handwriting and we wouldn't go through the upset again.

If she cancels it does she know that if something happens such as a stroke she'll be paying a lot of money for an application for deputyship? Someone would have to look after her affairs, would she rather it be you or some random person? I stuck to the stroke/car accident/banged head scenarios as they could happen to anyone without warning and avoided the whole "there's nothing wrong with my memory" discussion.

Fantastic post. I agree with this gentle approach. Threats of going NC are cruel in my opinion, even though I understand you are frustrated and justifiably angry. But it’s not her doing it so much as her illness. You can’t punish away memory loss from Alzheimer’s and dementia.

My mum and dad set up POA many years ago thank goodness but when I activated it with the bank and they sent dad a letter he was very upset and rang me multiple times about it. In the end I went to their house and took the letter and he forgot about it.

Whilst, POA certainly makes things easier, it’s not the end of the world if you don’t have one. Plenty of people don’t. If it’s causing this much stress, I wouldn’t bother.

Thank you, yes it is causing stress but everything I hear is that when she loses capacity (which will be soon) it's a nightmare to pay bills and arrange things.
Anyway I spoke to her earlier and se appears to have forgotten about it.

I told my mother in similar situations that if she didn't want to sign it then social services would organise care instead of us, that was the deciding factor for her, she didn't want social services involved. Of course they are but at least we have a say in her care.

My experience of paying bills with both parents with dementia: direct debits for all regular bills; card payment in parent’s presence for everything else.

We have done POA for my mum, but we left it too late for my dad, and we managed.

@HeddaGarbled did your parents have a joint account?

Yes. Card each. Dad cut his into tiny bits and put the bits down the kitchen sink 🤷‍♀️. We didn’t get him a new one!

@HeddaGarbled I live 200 miles away so logistically it's more complicated and I want to be able to help from a distance without doing a 400 mile round trip all the time.

I think you are in the wrong here. Its up to her whether you retain the POA or not. Threatening her with going NC is simply not on. But say you won't be stepping in to sort out problems.

Much easier if they have a joint account, but if have separate accounts or only one parent then much harder to access finances. DF had separate account in which his company pension was paid and bills were paid out of including rent. When his memory was going the bank could have put a stop on the account. When there was talk of him going into a nursing home we would not have been able to access his finances even to be able to find out the balance. Sadly he died in hospital before getting into the nursing home, but if he hadn’t sorting out the finances would have been a nightmare, as we didn’t manage to get a POA sorted into time.

@HeddaGarbled

My experience of paying bills with both parents with dementia: direct debits for all regular bills; card payment in parent’s presence for everything else.

We have done POA for my mum, but we left it too late for my dad, and we managed.

That works. But where the difficulty arises is cancelling direct debits, if they haven’t got online banking, changing electricity supplier, arranging care home payments, transfers to your own account to reimburse for all the things you’ve had to buy when they’re not present, opening a new building society account eg when a bond matures and the society has rolled over into a standard account paying zero interest, complaining to anyone if somethings gone wrong - unauthorised card payment, over charging on the fuel bill, etc

Well, as I say, we managed. I certainly didn’t bother trying to change electricity supplier or building society accounts etc. You don’t need to make life more difficult than it already is. The bank was very helpful over some scam card payments, by the way.

I know POA is ideal - I’m just saying that the OP doesn’t need to panic if it can’t be managed. It’s difficult enough having a parent with dementia without giving yourself extra stress.

@HeddaGarbled I think you were lucky, and it isn't always the norm. As I said DF's bank account was solely in his name, so no-one else in the family had authorisation to deal with the bank. He had internet banking, but we didn't have the passwords (which you shouldn't anyway) and DF got to the point where he couldn't remember them. So when it was being talked about him going into a home, we weren't even able to get details of how much money was in the account, never mind sort finances to fund the home, and cancel the standing order for rent in the house he lived in. And if the bank were informed he had lost capacity they should freeze the account. As we didn't have a POA it added so much stress to what was already a stressful time. In the end my DF died in hospital before he got anyway near the home. But if he had lived, we would probably have had to fund the care home until we are able to access the bank, which could have taken up to 6 months.

Morango Hopefully your DM will lose the offending letter she's obsessing about or you could ask a visitor to put it in a safe place
We didn't get POA for my parents. My DF died while my mum was sectioned with her dementia. It meant she was stuck in the nhs system for seven months while we got court approval. (And didn't pay care home fees - so there are upsides.) It was a mess. Whatever happens, you do get through it.

@HeddaGarbled

Well, as I say, we managed. I certainly didn’t bother trying to change electricity supplier or building society accounts etc. You don’t need to make life more difficult than it already is. The bank was very helpful over some scam card payments, by the way.

I know POA is ideal - I’m just saying that the OP doesn’t need to panic if it can’t be managed. It’s difficult enough having a parent with dementia without giving yourself extra stress.

How long did you manage for?

@Mum5net

Morango Hopefully your DM will lose the offending letter she's obsessing about or you could ask a visitor to put it in a safe place We didn't get POA for my parents. My DF died while my mum was sectioned with her dementia. It meant she was stuck in the nhs system for seven months while we got court approval. (And didn't pay care home fees - so there are upsides.) It was a mess. Whatever happens, you do get through it.

I suppose that’s one way of looking at it. It costs a lot more to go through the courts, but if it’s all going to go on care costs anyway, what does it matter?

Their paranoia becomes so much worse awith dementia. I video my mum if she makes some sort of agreement because she always goes back on it but if I've recorded her agreeing, she can't deny it. Could you get her agree to the PoA and video it? The problem is if you give a hint that she has dementia, you'll need to get a doctor involved etc.

My mum is easy going about everything, but if I even try and shred a three year old energy bill, she accuses me of all sorts. They can't remember stuff so they get scared and lash out. I get really affronted, so I do understand, but it's really not personal, they're just trying to cling onto the old normal.

Can I ask what her capacity is? Can she handle money? Does she use her debit card? My mum used to get her pension money and pay with cash with a £20 note because she couldn't count out money. She had no idea how to use a debit card. Could you set up a joint account for her pension so you can access money from your end to pay bills etc? Or is she still too money aware for that yet?