What when it's our turn?

[aramox]

Staggering on caring for elderly parents with no quality of life, I'm trying to think how to avoid getting into the same situation myself. I have one child who I don't want to care for me. But I also don't actually want to live that long. I don't want to be taking loads of medications and getting dementia. Lots of my older relatives died fairly easily in their 70s or early 80s, but that's much rarer now. How are you preparing your own life for future ageing? And is anyone else thinking about trying to avoid medical interventions that keep us alive too long?

@memberofthewedding lovely way to describe dementia patients (of which my poor mum is one) did you mean to be so disparaging ??

Do doctors honour ADs?

My parents GP was upset about them doing DNRs!

Seeing my mum with advanced dementia with no quality of life makes me question why people can't die with dignity.

Anyone can write an advance directive but it is probably a good idea to look at suggested templates online and then amend as you see fit

You need a properly witnesses signature and then provide a copy to your GP so it can be scanned on your medical records. Do make sure your nearest and dearest are aware of its existence and what it says.

If you have someone you trust to make appropriate decisions on your behalf then make them your POA for health and welfare.

Make your wishes as clear as possible so they can't be misinterpreted.

My parents GP was upset about them doing DNRs!

Official DNR orders need to be signed by a doctor or nurse so you can't just put one in place on your own. Having a DNR is only one aspect of advance care planning, it simply means if your heart stops beating you don't want CPR or a Defib. Medical professionals are obliged to follow advance directives as long as the patient had adequate mental capacity when the directive was made and they haven't been coersed into it.

Bram the GP signing them was upset, that's what they told me anyway.

@carmelbeach

Ah I see. That's a bit odd (unless your parents are still quite young, fit and healthy I suppose?)

Bram, they were late 70s when they did it. It was just before covid, maybe the doctor would feel differently now.

I can't really imagine how the doc would react to an AD from someone who isn't yet 60. I can't see it going down well and I don't want to cause unnecessary hassle for myself.

Suicide, legally or otherwise. A care home is no place to rot away.

Well I'm 48 so ill find out :)

@Jenthefredo

Well I'm 48 so ill find out :)

Would you consider posting here with your findings?

I look at Derek Draper and think, there's no way I would want to be kept alive like that. Great if he does, that's his business, but I want to be sure that I get switched off in that kind of scenario.

Re care homes, my nan was in a nice one but to me, that's not the issue. The issue is my independence.

Of course!
Yes, I agree with you. I took a lady with vascular dementia for her covid vaccine today.
(I'm a volunteer driver)
This lady has no idea where she is or what she is doing/saying. She always looks so confused. Every now and again she seems to grasp that there is something wrong with her. Its desperately sad.
She relies on volunteers and a very kind local lady to keep her safe/fed.
Her family all live abroad.
Another couple who live locally both have dementia and multiple health conditions (the ambulance is there 3 x times a week - I'm not exaggerating) and their 51 year old son cares for them.
I would hate to do that to my sons. I have made clear they are not to sacrifice their life to look after me if I lose capacity but I also want to ensure I don't end up in a home either.
There are worse things than a quick death.

Absolutely no intention of carrying on when I lose my independence.

Several bottles of wine and a cold midnight swim is the best plan I have right now. Hopefully we will have assisted dying by then so the plan becomes redundant.

I think most docs/surgeons will happily not treat if it’s what a pt wants. Lots of the time they are under pressure from patients and family

My mother was young when she had me and died last year aged 86. The 5 years leading up to that were a grim decline and a daily reminder of what might be in store. She was as fit as a flea until she was 80.
I have had a number of health problems starting in my late 50s so not expecting to live as long as her. As to taking loads of medications. I do now. I hate it with a passion, but actually they all allow me to live an active, pain free life.
Two years ago I was diagnosed with breast cancer - this of course coincided with my mother being more ill.
I discovered with clarity that I didn't want to die but that if it was going to happen I wanted an exit strategy. People were shocked when I mentioned it.
The problem is that suicide is so very devastating for family. I mulled over many ways to do it so as to appear an accident.

Jen - thank you

We have a family friend, 91, with dementia, diagnosed about 10 years ago. His wife and son can't cope - in 80s and 60s.

He has carers but they aren't always there when he has panic attacks because he doesn't recognise or understand the room or the people in it.

I had a cancer scare about three years ago. The worst thing was I didn't want treatment but felt obliged for my family. It was suspected as one that despatches you quickly.

It brought it home to me that going early was just fine.

It didn't turn out to be cancer. If it is next time, I will just say no if it's the fast kind.

Just thinking about the friend with dementia and what his family have been through the last ten years makes me want to light a candle and say a prayer.

@CarmelBeach

Bram, they were late 70s when they did it. It was just before covid, maybe the doctor would feel differently now.

I can't really imagine how the doc would react to an AD from someone who isn't yet 60. I can't see it going down well and I don't want to cause unnecessary hassle for myself.

I took my Advanced Directive to the GP when I was 49. He was very surprised, and asked some questions to find out if I was depressed or feeling suicidal. I wasn't. I explained to him how watching my mum's awful decline, especially her last year, convinced me I didn't want a lingering death like that of extreme frailty and dementia. Then he said he understood perfectly.
You can quite specific about when you do / don't want treatment in it.

So the vast majority of posters on here intend/would want to kill themselves. In reality, how many people actually do that in old age? Very very few. Because whatever we think when we're well, we're primed to stay alive, even when we're old and life isn't great.

My mum always said she wouldn't want to live if she got ill or very old. Then she had a massive stroke and is largely helpless, paralysed down one side. For the past 12 years she's been a nursing home, and now an extra care facility.

When she got an infection in the nursing home, she got very ill, and wasn't conscious. The nursing home didn't have a DNR in place, so they asked my brother, initially, what she'd want. He didn't hesitate at all and said she wouldn't want to be resuscitated. I confirmed that when they asked me.

My mum recovered, and then the nurse at the home asked her what she'd want should such a situation happen again. Foolishly she mentioned what my brother had said. My mum was furious, and said that she wanted everything done to keep her alive. And 10 years on she still tells people my brother wants her dead.

She's in her late 80s and still occasionally needs to be hospitalised. Every time, the doctors ask her about resuscitation, and every time, sometimes to their obvious discomfort, she says she wants everything doing.

She has done a complete 180 degrees change of mind. When you're well, you think the life you might have in old age will be awful. When you're actually in that position, you might well find that at least it's life and you don't want to give it up.

There are worse things than death for me
Your mum obviously feels differently

But I worked in a nursing home when I was 19 and studying.
I saw things that still haunt me now at nearly 50.
I know what I don't want.

@Jenthefredo

But I worked in a nursing home when I was 19 and studying. I saw things that still haunt me now at nearly 50. I know what I don't want.

I can relate

The two friends I mentioned dying at 64 and 73, just seemed they'd been freed before life could wreck their health. In fact 73 is too old for me. It wasn't for her, I hope.

Someone aged 65 upset the others in a group chat by saying "well, there's not much point living past 70 anyway". Luckly I wasn't on the chat because I'd have got in trouble for agreeing. We're not saying it's not for other people, just not for us.

Why are we happy at the end of Thelma and Louise? It's not just about the FBI!

There is also the issue of children being unable to let their elderly parents go... they are kept alive so DC don’t have to deal with their death. We appear to have moved so far away from dealing with death as part of normality that no one copes with it.

and this is why you should (we all should) talk about these things openly, freely, and often. It shouldn't be taboo.

We put animals down out of kindness when they are failing but we don’t do the same for humans. I don’t want to be rotting away at the end. Once I lose my cognitive and physical ability then I’d like to just go peacefully and pain free.

Me too.
I don't want to impose that upon other people, but I would like the option for me

Unfortunately when it's socially acceptable for people to make that choice, it eventually becomes seen as socially desirable. I don't have the papers to hand, but I did research some years ago and where euthanasia is legalised in certain situations it becomes normalised and harder to refuse. People with disabilities and illnesses begin to feel like a burden and feel they are seen as a burden and obliged to do it. Very sad.

I work in dementia services and witness all the things you all fear every day.
It is no way to live and although I am there to deliver activities, most are not physically or mentally capable of much at all. Those who have some capability have lost interest in life.
In this line of work it does make one wonder if this is what I have to look forward to, but also it makes me realise that I should be making the most of life whilst I can.

So true that open conversations about these issues is vital. I'm looking after my elderly parents and the rapid decline in physical and mental health has been very hard to witness. The worst part for me is the change in personality with my mum. She was always so sociable and interested in life but now her world revolves around hospital appointments and she has forgotten who her friends are. The pressure trying to look after my own family, plus my job and care for my parents is bloody hard. My parents didn't organise their financial affairs so I've that to wade through and also having to sort out their house maintenance problems. Every single thing is a battle with my Dad who thinks he can still do everything but is a walking safety disaster. Spinning plates is how I feel.

This has opened my eyes to be determined that I will not put my children in this position.