What when it's our turn?

[aramox]

Staggering on caring for elderly parents with no quality of life, I'm trying to think how to avoid getting into the same situation myself. I have one child who I don't want to care for me. But I also don't actually want to live that long. I don't want to be taking loads of medications and getting dementia. Lots of my older relatives died fairly easily in their 70s or early 80s, but that's much rarer now. How are you preparing your own life for future ageing? And is anyone else thinking about trying to avoid medical interventions that keep us alive too long?

I was raised to know that I would have to care for my parents and god help me if I tried to pack them off into a home! What actually happened was I left home in my early 20s, DM passed away with cancer in her mid 70s and DF is absolutely determined to make it to 100! Thankfully he doesn't live with us for if he did our lives as we know them would be over the day he sets foot through the door. I have to take him to his medical appointments which are getting more frequent, and anything else he can get me to do (shopping, etc)
I have one DS who i had at 40 and the burden of care in old age is starting to worry me. As so many on here, the last thing I want is for him to become me, a means to.facilitate someone else's happiness and ease of life. If that makes sense? Not sure it does! So we are putting in place arrangements (financial) to make it easier when that time comes.
Another thing that bugs me is that DF refuses help from Age UK although I have told him he is entitled to help with cleaning (he can't see very well so he has mice issues where he lives) He says his daughter does everything. Actually I don't, or try not to anyway! It's becoming a slippery slope.
Sorry this ended up being longer than I intended

God help me if I tried to pack them off into a home
Thing is .... what are they going to do, stop your pocket money?🤭
they don't have any actual power over you when you're an adult!

We lost two friends this year. One was 64 and there's no cause of death known yet. He just came home from work and died quietly watching TV.

The other was a neighbour, 73, energetically gardening, then just keeled over. This was seen by another neighbour who went pelting round and she was dead in the 2 minutes it took him to get there. Athescerlosis and or/stroke.

The main thing that struck me was that they always refused to see a doctor. For that it seems they were rewarded with a peaceful sudden death. Both were fully energetic.

I'd really like to get out of the clutches of the doctor for just this reason. It depends if I can manage without HRT. But why should I forego the quality of life medication? Increasingly I think it's time I found a private doctor.

@Miasicarisatia

God help me if I tried to pack them off into a home Thing is .... what are they going to do, stop your pocket money?🤭 they don't have any actual power over you when you're an adult!

No, but the reality must be incredibly unpleasant. Has anyone read The Golden Hour by William Nicholson?

Trying to push someone into something they don't want or withdrawing support to get rid of them...must be horrendous.

I haven't given it much thought, but initially I'm thinking I need to stay in the best possible health to mitigate as many of the issues as I can, and if/when it's a cognitive decline to just put DNR on my records. I don't want my children or their partners to look after me, I don't think it's fair on them or their future families but I also don't want to go into a home, maybe assisted living?

It was a shock to me when it became clear that my (very, very) elderly relative, who in her early and middle old age had blithely gone on about "push me under a bus" etc, was actually extremely afraid of death .

She had many years of very low quality of life before she died and my heart broke for her every time I saw her, no longer able to enjoy any of the things that she had when she was even in her 80s. But she absolutely would have balked at euthanasia. She really was afraid.

Anyway, she had all medications withdrawn when she became too demented ( I suspect very much hastened by utter boredom and depression) to agree to take them and it was agreed that it would be kinder to abide by her wishes and just let nature take its course. It took her another 4 years to die, physically in great nick but so frail and not recognising anyone in her family.

I don't know what the answer is. How you feel now may not be how you feel then, and while you may be adamant now that you'll not want your children to provide care and you won't balk at the nursing home or carers coming in, you may feel differently (possibly caused by changes in your brain and personality due to aging). Fuck, it's grim .

As someone that has had a stroke can I recommend you do take medication to avoid one? The outcome very much depends on which bit of brain is killed off!!

Not all people that have one are left fit for a care home.

There is also the issue of children being unable to let their elderly parents go... they are kept alive so DC don’t have to deal with their death. We appear to have moved so far away from dealing with death as part of normality that no one copes with it.

This is something that concerns me as I recently had to go through years of misery because a close relative had dementia but refused to acknowledge it or accept any care until they lost capacity. I loved them hugely but now I really do feel resentment for what they put me through and it has coloured all the fond memories I had of them. In time I hope this will fade but I wouldn't want to impose this onto anyone else.

The problem I have is I have no idea - other than going to Dignitas - how to bring about a peaceful death. I've never taken drugs and if you google all you get are pages that tell you to contact suicide helplines. I have no intention of going anywhere until my mind and body start to give up the ghost but I'd like to be prepared!

How you feel now may not be how you feel then, and while you may be adamant now that you'll not want your children to provide care and you won't balk at the nursing home or carers coming in, you may feel differently (possibly caused by changes in your brain and personality due to aging)

This is bang on. It's one thing for a young, healthy person to say 'I'll just top myself when the time comes', quite another to actually BE old and fighting to live.

We put animals doen out of kindness when they are failing but we don’t do the same for humans. I don’t want to be rotting away at the end. Once I lose my cognitive and physical ability then I’d like to just go praceguly and pain free.

My grandmother was a geriatric nurse and made us promise to dnr if she was failing at her life’s end. She had a massive stroke that left her disabled, blind and doubly incontinent, she would have been devastated to be in that state. She died a few days after the stroke and it was the best thing for her. It was terrible for us but she would have hated living like that.

@BashfulClam

We put animals doen out of kindness when they are failing but we don’t do the same for humans. I don’t want to be rotting away at the end. Once I lose my cognitive and physical ability then I’d like to just go praceguly and pain free.

True we treat our pets kindly but the animals that we consume for pleasure we treat them disgustingly (When I say we of course I exempt myself as I am a vegan)

sleepy what you describe really scares me

Random I have to got to die of something. I appreciate there's a balance but I'm on that BP level where a different doctor wouldn't even want me to take meds.

The constant reclassification of things doesn't help.

I worry about this too, we only have one DS and neither of us are in good health. I am so sick of caring for elderly relatives and completely exhausted by it, I never want DS to be burdened by us.
I'm desperately hoping they legalise euthanasia before too long.

We're having this conversation too. Also, encouraging our sons to think about the quality of their own lives.

We don't want them to spend their 50s worrying about us, and then feel 'past it' in their 60s. We're trying to identify that sweet spot where you aren't squeezed!

That said, I don't approve of dismissing ourselves and others according to age. I do feel we should be contributing though. We have immense value to the community in our older age, but only if we choose to offer it. We should all be doing community work of some sort, imo. When I can't contribute and am not independent, I'll start to wonder what's the use of me,

Pickle "We should all be doing community work of some sort, imo."

Why?

I believe as individuals we do better when we have a function.
Certainly society does better when we all have a function.

We are living longer and costing more to support- very few of us cover our own costs in terms of tax. We can contribute our knowledge, wisdom, experience to our community. Otherwise if we down tools at 67 and do nothing for anyone except ourselves, then all that is lost. We have perhaps 15-20 years ahead of us when we could be contributing. If we aren't, then we are the drain on our extended families/community that we none of us on this thread want to be.

I'm not saying we all need to work ourselves to death, but volunteering in a local school, visiting housebound people, mentoring teenagers, being a local councillor- whatever you could enjoy and be good at- really makes a difference.

Pickle "We are living longer and costing more to support- very few of us cover our own costs in terms of tax"

I've paid more than enough tax and that will be taxed when I'm dead!

A reduction in tax might be the only thing that motivated me to volunteer. Anyway, I did that when I was young, I certainly wouldn't do it again.

The idea that I have to prove my worth as I get older is even more of a reason to think how old I want to get.

@BackforGood I also support Dignity in Dying and have let Dh and my adult kids know my feelings. Trouble is my dh is a hospital consultant and doesn’t believe in assisted dying. He says it’s against the Hippocratic oath - which is bollocks because causing unnecessary suffering is against the oath in my opinion!
I will write an advanced directive and pray that this Country comes to its senses and legalises assisted dying at some point soon.

@aramox

I wonder what medical interventions now keep people alive? Is it heart medication preventing fatal strokes?

As PPs mentioned it's also antibiotics. Old people used to die of pneumonia, which was called 'old man's friend' presumably as it was a good way to go before more severe decline then death, now they're given antibiotics.
UTIs in the extreme elderly are also awful as they cause such mental confusion, but again they're treated with antibiotics, and the person is kept alive while their autonomy, health, sense of self and dignity is diminishing.

How does one go about sorting out an advance directive?
I absolutely want no heroic measures if I am deprived of oxygen nor anti biotics if I have dementia.
I am making my soon to 18 year-old my LPOA and he knows and supports my views.

No intention of growing old in a care home for either of us. Suicide via pills, alcohol, carbon monoxide and anything else we can do to make sure the job is done.
Genetics mean either we shall pass in our 60s or dementia will get us. Hoping for the former. No family etc.
Poas/dnr and wishes lodged with everyone we can think of. We already taken steps to avoid nhs interaction for things such as blood pressure meds etc.

@Jenthefredo

How does one go about sorting out an advance directive? I absolutely want no heroic measures if I am deprived of oxygen nor anti biotics if I have dementia. I am making my soon to 18 year-old my LPOA and he knows and supports my views.

I linked to a website where you can download one.. near the beginning of the thread..

Thank you