My Dad is permanently disappointed

[Sharonthecat]

... and I'm not sure how to deal with it anymore. I'd be really grateful for honest opinions and any advice going!
My Mum died 4 years ago, which was obviously very hard on my Dad. For the first year or so he came over to us twice a week for a meal and to have a trip out of the house. I'd also occasionally go to his house, though admittedly not as often as we don't drive and he lives about 20 miles away. That was really his only contact with people. He speaks to one of my brothers, but he lives 300 miles away and has a disabled DD so can't travel easily. Pre Covid my Dad would go down once or twice a year to see him. That's the extent of his social contact. I have suggested he go and visit my Mums brothers and sisters, join a photography group, find a hobby, all the normal things that you'd suggest to ease loneliness. He has absolutely refused them all.
Just over a year ago, my Dad decided he would no longer come and visit us as he felt my husband wasn't welcoming enough. My husband is an understated character who sees my Dad as family, so whilst I disagree completely that he is unwelcoming, I accept that you will not receive balloons and fanfare just because you come to visit. Obviously, this has meant we see my Dad less, as he will only come when my husband isn't here. Almost weekly I suggest that me and my DS get the train over for a visit, but my Dad says no. I can't really get to the bottom of why, but he generally says we will only be over for a few hours so what's the point? I call my Dad daily, which is not the same as a visit, but I like to speak to him and thought he liked it too.
Anyway. I spoke to him today and asked if he would like to come over on Saturday. My husband is at work on Saturday. I then said, it would be nice if you come whilst DH is here one day Dad. Nothing aggressive, just fact. What I got then is a list of what I am doing wrong I'm not supporting him. Apparently he's never felt welcome enough to 'just pop in' - he's more than welcome, he really genuinely is, we would love it. He said that when his mum was elderly he had her move in, and pointed out he hasn't even stayed the night here. That's valid, he hasn't, because he wont see DH, and would never actually say yes to the request anyway! He also said I wasn't proactive enough on helping him and should just 'do things' for him. I see a degree of truth in this, maybe I should just turn up on his doorstep, but I work, have a 6 year old DC and a shift worker husband. I need a degree of planning and the thought that I'd actually be welcome wouldn't go amiss either.
Apparently I don't have an opinion on anything either. This is absolutely not true. I have opinions and am able to express them - whether he listens or not is up to him.
So, yes. I'm left feeling pretty upset. I honestly feel like I have been doing my best, but perhaps I could be doing better. I'd appreciate peoples thoughts on this.
I love my Dad, but he is often angry, very ranty and to be honest, a difficult character. On the other hand, I do love him and don't want him to be lonely. What would you do? At the moment I don't feel like I want to speak to him for a few days, but I'm not sure if this is cruel.
Thanks in advance xx

He sounds like my Grandmother. She's too old and frail now to go out and do anything- but even when she could, she had a million reasons why she couldn't or wouldn't. I do this, it's one of the ways I recognise I'm sinking into depression. And OP thinks he may be depressed so that would explain that. OP - definitely not your fault! And if what you're doing doesn't help his depression, keeping on doing it or doing more of it certainly won't. Someone may be able to help him - but not you.

There's a pattern emerging - he doesn't like the partners of his children. That's a bit of an unhealthy dynamic. It's up to him to sort himself out and bear the consequences of his own actions - don't be running circles around him to give him access to you without your DH; if he can't manage with limited access he'll either have to lump it or learn to cope with your DH.

I think you're right, you have to "care less". My family were quite good at saying "it's just what he's like" and not taking it personally. I had a good relationship with my mother and we had a lot of fun together. But one or two of the things she said to me would have MN screaming at me to go NC. So you can either decide that you want to continue your relationship with your Dad and partition off a lot of his behaviour as "it's just what he's like"; or you can decide his behaviour is too bad to be tolerated. But rest assured it's not you. Live life by your standards not by his beliefs.

He ... has had the best of his life. I hate this phrase! Everyone should be able to have the best life they can, whether they are young or old.

Wonder if he would be so demanding if you was male- I think not!

As a women he expects you to look after him- but it’s 2021 and women work now a days.

You do enough.

@MereDintofPandiculation Live life by your standards not by his beliefs. I like this a lot. I'm examining myself and questioning myself, and I'm pretty certain of my standards. So yeah, it's time to emotionally separate a bit for self preservation - though I do want to still be there for him.
Thank you 😊

Say to him calmly 'you have been fairly unpleasant to me recently, when I am trying to help and support you. I'm here if you want anything but you will have to call me and you will have to compromise and be polite to me and dh, otherwise our support will not be there in the future. Getting angry at me won't help you and it hurts me. I won't be putting up with it anymore.

This is good advice.

Pull back op, he doesn’t have any right to speak to you like this.

Mere of course. But her DF has a lot less to lose.

He is very lucky to have you. What a shame he doesn't appreciate you!

You need to care less and put your needs ahead of his.

I have very similar issues with my Mum. In her ideal world, she would live with us and we would do everything for her. That will never happen as she is just too needy/suffocating. Also, nothing would ever be enough for her.

Offer what you are comfortable to give. It is very doubtful he will ever understand your position so there is little point in explaining yourself. Invite him over when it suits you. If he doesn't want to come and would prefer to sit at home on his own stewing that's his prerogative. His happiness is not your responsibility.

@cptartapp

Mere of course. But her DF has a lot less to lose.

But anything he loses is a much larger proportion of what he has left.

It just feels so callous when someone tells you you should have made the most of it when you were young, you’ve had your chance, no need to hope for anything good in the future.

He wants you to drop your husband and move back in with him and service his needs instead

He may or may not allow your child to come

He is AWFUL

Mere but he's been lucky to get to old age. There are no guarantees for the young.

Everyone can expect the best life they can but not at someone else's expense.

Chimoia has some great advice. I think that you have been accommodating enough. Please don't be guilted into doing more than you are willing too.

If he's bored or lonely, ask him what he's doing about it.

If you do discuss what he needs doing, which might be a good idea, point out how he can arrange all of this stuff himself.

I also agree with the poster who said that you need to stop only seeing your DF when your DH isn't there. The summer is coming and you need some days of it just being you and DS. If DF can't handle being on your home with the people that you love, that really is his choice.

If my "D"M is ever unpleasant to me in her home I just leave. I'm sure she'll work out one day that if she's awful she sees less of me but it hasn't happened yet but I least I don't have to sit there listening to it.

Have you seen the Stately Homes thread. It seems you are stuck in the FOG, fear, obligation and guilt. He sees your services as duty. What do your siblings do for him? Is he choosing you as you are the girl? Does he seriously expect you to drop your husband for him? Spend less family time to please him? By saying things like he doesn't stay over when he doesn't even want to be there with your husband showing how far off his ideas are. He has picked something impractical on purpose. Because it won't happen so he will forever be disappointed. You need to work out what he practically needs, what you are willing to do and STICK to your boundaries. He will no doubt want more and more as he gets older. How much you do is up to you, not him. So don't give too much now that, if you want to, you can't give more time in future. And if some practical help is needed can he get a cleaner in, gardener etc

Everyone can expect the best life they can but not at someone else's expense. Yes, that's something we can agree on!

Thanks everyone for your input, I appreciate it.

Dad came to visit on Saturday and all went well. I have taken on board what you have all said and am beginning to establish some boundaries, starting with not calling him every single day. This starts today, and I've set his expectations.

I will also raise the issue that he must start coming over when DH is here. I'm not quite ready for that conversation yet, but I will approach it in the next week or so.

I've had another think on this one and I think that you may need to be more straightforward with him.

you should be more proactive and just do things for him

Dad, I work and have a house and family to sort out.

I'm lonely

What are you doing about that?

I don't feel welcome

Dad, you're always welcome and just change the subject.

My "D"M is somewhat like this, the only difference is that she doesn't actually tell us what she wants, expects us to do things for her without ever knowing what those things are and then tells everyone how awful we are for not doing the things which she's never said she wanted doing. So at least your DF is telling you what he wants, even if those requests are a bit bonkers unreasonable

Well done in putting some space between you and not calling him tonight, I hope you get chance to do something positive for yourself

With him not coming over when your DH is there, well that works in your favour you only invite him when DH is there and he can either come over or not.

Rather a win if he refuses isn't it!

Oh OP I could have written your original post myself a few years ago.

After mum died my dad gradually became the grumpiest, most selfish, miserable, cantankerous old git you could imagine.

But I loved him dearly, and he did me. He just saved all his misery up and I got it both barrels. And then he'd get upset with himself for taking it out on me, when I was 'the best'.

Mostly I took it on the chin; occasionally I pointed out his behaviour.

Dad died a couple of years ago, and I miss him every day. My only advise to you would be to look after yourself, but try not to let your relationship with him break down. You obviously love him dearly. Good advice to try and talk to him, and maybe your husband too.

Good luck.

How did your mum handle your dad?

@Sharonthecat I don’t think you need explicitly tell him he must start coming over with your DH there. Just start by mentioning DH will by there, and let him realise he’s not going to see you if he waits till DH is not there.

You need to step right back. Tell him he can visit and he can arrange that himself.

Stop offering to visit him and cut right back on phone calls. Daily calls give him too much space in your head.

It’s not up to you to sort out your dad’s issues. It all sounds unpleasant and wearing. Set boundaries now and stick to them.

And stop feeling guilty! I know it’s easier said than done but there is no need.

Hi OP, I found your thread after a frustrating call with my DM who is apparently never happy with any of the vast effort I feel I make since my Dad died a few years ago. It is exhausting.

Sorry to hear that @Authenticchicken
It's incredibly hard isn't it? Feel free to rant here if it helps

@Authenticchicken

Hi OP, I found your thread after a frustrating call with my DM who is apparently never happy with any of the vast effort I feel I make since my Dad died a few years ago. It is exhausting.

The easy advice to give (but more difficult to follow) is, since she will never be happy however much you do, you might as well do only as much as you are easily willing and able to do. Doing more won't stop the complaints and will damage your health and well-being.

I don’t know if I can be helpful but I’ll share my experience and maybe it could resonate? My DM is widowed and of a....type? Generation? Who is so busy second guessing what you “really” mean that it takes hours to persuade you mean what you say. Eg -
“X’s funeral is happening, they say they want you to attend but I’m sure they’re just being polite, you don’t have to.”

I see this as my DM saying any of the following.
A) you’re wanted, you weren’t left out, come to the funeral, you loved her.
B) they don’t want you but they wanted to mention you so you didn’t feel left out, don’t come, they would have been more emphatic if they reeeally wanted you there, they’re just polite - Jesus, don’t book a ROOM, you’re so presumptuous you hardly knew him compared to me.
C) I know you are too busy to attend, I wouldn’t impose on your conscience, you barely called them and you don’t support me.

With the end result potentially being; “you never attended X’s funeral, you were too busy with your career and it was really sad.”

That is one tiny example. Eventually I had to say to her; when people tell you what they think, just believe them.

When I say can I come for Easter Sunday, assume I want to come for Easter Sunday. Do NOT spend hours trying to work out what I really mean. Do I mean “I feel obligated to turn up for Easter Sunday when I hate everything about it and my mother is old?” No. I do not. I can politely get out of Easter Sunday lunch 40 times over. If I say I want to be there I mean it.
If I say I can’t do fabric shopping to choose curtains for your summer house, because I have an immovable meeting it DOES NOT MEAN I HATE YOU. It literally means I cannot do that time and you should enjoy it alone or reschedule. I just said I would love to but...

Maybe it’s just my DM but her desire to cynically read between the lines and disbelieve anything anyone says and try to second guess their real meaning drove me crazy. We are now at an equilibrium of “believe them and if they didn’t mean it, the result is their fault”.

I don’t know if that helps at all, but it has been cathartic for me! Best of luck.

@CrabPuff

Yes! Especially....

If I say I can’t do fabric shopping to choose curtains for your summer house, because I have an immovable meeting it DOES NOT MEAN I HATE YOU. It literally means I cannot do that time and you should enjoy it alone or reschedule. I just said I would love to but...