Power of attorney while parents are well?

[Neenaw20]

Hi

I’d appreciate some advice. My parents are getting order. Neither are in good health. My mum has Leukaemia and has various other ailments including diabetes, high blood pressure etc. My dad has frontal lobe damage, is more or less deaf and has reduced mobility.

My mums speech has deteriorated significantly recently. She is at times unable to string a sentence together, slurs her words and has lost confidence (not helped by the corona lockdown and isolation). I have been living with my parents for the last 10 months whilst my house has been renovated and have seen a definite change in her behaviour (as has my dad) and we are both worried for her. Her memory and metal capacity appears generally ok. Not great but ok.

I have asked my mum to see a doctor to see if she can get some help for her speech but she has until now refused to acknowledge there is a problem. My dad has also spoken with her. We are now at a stage where she has agreed to see the doctor next week and she is looking into a Power of Attorney. Something I believe is sensible to put in place whilst both parents are well, it wont take away from their ability to look after their affairs at this time but it means I (and my siblings) can help them when required and it can be enforced should anything change in the future which affects mental capacity.

I think it’s the right thing to do and have been advised by many friends and family to put this in place based on their experiences.

My sister is however hesitant about it and feels it’s overkill. She thinks if we just write a note to the institutions that mum needs to speak to (like banks) that this should be adequate.

I am quite frustrated by this. My sister very rarely sees my mum (3-4 times a year) and when she pops by it’s briefly and my mum is on best behaviour. I feel she has no real understanding of the level of support both my parents need (even now). I am also fearful that should anything happen with my parents health then I will be left to puzzle my way through the minefield of legal and financial challenges associated with a lack of power of attorney. I wouldn’t be able to spend the time doing this. I live by myself, I have a full time job which is very demanding and I have my own mortgage and financial commitments which I can’t walk away from.

I suppose I am asking, am I doing the right thing by asking my parents to think proactively about the POA? Or is this overstepping the mark? As said previously, as I understand it, it Is something you should do while you are well in preparation for when you aren’t well. I want to make sure I am in the best position to help my parents. I love them very much.

Most PP have spoken about finance PoA but Health and Welfare is the one I've ended up using so far.

Mum had cared for various elderly relatives herself so got PoA sorted in good time. She always dreaded losing her marbles but in fact they were the one darn thing that kept working! Except for when she got an infection - low oxygen to the brain + a UTI and all of a sudden that sharp brain just .. couldn't... and she was in hospital, nobody was giving us a clear story as to what was going on, and she was not happy.
The H&W PoA meant I could go into bat for her, armed with notebook, pen and polite persistence. I think just knowing she had someone who could and would legitimately stand up for her relieved her no end.

It was also bloody handy when my step Dad had a nervous breakdown and follow-on heart trouble from the upset of her illness - I could go in to the GP with him and go, "Look PoA, not just a bossy SD with no boundaries honest".

Also during her final illness it meant the medics would talk to us, which, given that her illness made her forgetful and once or twice (UTI!) delerious.

Mum's gone now but I still have PoA for StepDad and an auntie & uncle. My OH and I were first to set ours up though, in our late 40s - circumstances bore it in on us that we are ALL just one nasty fall, one RTA, one stroke, one brain tumour, one nasty infection away from not being able to handle our own affairs.

user sorry for all of your experiences and how bloody brilliant you had it sorted.

Partic moved by your mum because we sometimes forget in all the spotlight on the user of the poa, that the subject of them can be enormously comforted knowing someone is fighting their corner or sorting stuff out.

Heck my lovely old ma dropped down dead out of the blue fit as a fiddle up till then so we never had to use either poa but she loved that they were in place, for herself, and also for us. She knew it would make things easier all round if need be.

I'd encourage everyone to get POA for health/welfare and financial at the earliest possible stage.
Just uttering the magic words of 'I have POA' made things so much easier lots of times over the last 10 years when dealing with hospital, HCPs and social services. Then when my dad died (suddenly, though not altogether unexpectedly) I was able to get control of mums bank account within a week so I was set up to sort care home fees etc and all the things on the house that weren't direct debit, get her mail redirected to me - and of course get her into a home (she had severe dementia) and make decisions on her behalf right to the end.

I'd also really encourage people to give you at least a rough idea about funerals (first phone call with the funeral directors they asked about burial or cremation, and even knowing which funeral directors to call was such a blessing), and also an advance care directive. Saying that they should have a DNR for mum, and then comfort measures only was the hardest thing I've ever done, but I was secure in knowing it was dads wish for her

Can I echo CMOT’s advice about talking about funerals.

My DF died suddenly last month at home and we had to arrange for an undertaker to take him away. I phoned the first one I could think of who duly came and took his body only to find the next day when looking for paperwork that he had a funeral plan insurance policy and the nominated undertaker was not the one I’d phoned.
I managed to sort it all out thankfully but it was extra stress I could have done without.

Google my Mumsnet name on this issue and there's plenty of a cautionary tale about what to learn if you don't have LPA in Health and Welfare. Without it you are not the decision maker for your parent's care. Various people are - hospital consultants, social workers - but it will never be you. And all save money from your parents' demise.

Care home infected by Covid-19? Want to move Mum back to the family home pronto? Social services can prevent that. Especially if you're self-funding - you're subsidising the council-funded residents to the tune of several hundred a week.

If they later die, too bad. You won't have a legal case.

BTW losing mental capacity needn't mean they're gaga. I never expected my mother to lose mental capacity could never envisage it and she never really did. She knew who she was, where she was, who we were right to the end. She got it. That said, years before that, she was technically down as not having mental capacity. Truthfully, she didn't speak much at all and could hardly, say, walk into a bank and open an account, for instance! But don't imagine she was dead to us and some kind of breathing baggage. She liked good food and music et al.

On her medical notes we later learned she had 'extreme dementia'. She had nothing of a sort, but we couldn't see that to contradict it. Why? Because we didn't know to get LPA in Health and Welfare. We had it in Finance for some reason, but not H&W. Without it, you are not entitled to read your parent's medical notes. The care home could have her on the chemical cosh and they wouldn't have to tell you.

The powers that be say that what is put in writing is true, and if it's not put in writing it never happened. They can also bitch about you on you're parent's notes which again you can't see if you didn't get LPA in Health and Welfare. It's a toxic scenario and once you're in it you can't get out until the end comes.

Sort it out ASAP. If it's not in place at the point of incapacity you have to apply to the court of protection and it's very intrusive and very expensive

Yes do it now. We have one for my Mum but will only use it once necessary. My husband's family didn't have one for their mother and it made life extremely difficult.

Well just one more to say LPA and the health and welfare one is such a good thing. DH & I have done one for our DS and we are fit and healthy. There is no way IMHO that just having access to Parent's bank accounts works - it needs to be a proper signatory managing assets thing - which of course only come into play when they are without capacity - never before. & OP you can tell your sister -you can only spend money via LPA / POA if it is for the benefit of the person - I also agree with the person who posted above - without a health and welfare POA , being next of kin counts for almost nothing. My husband found this out for his father to their cost. Social services & hospital step in and will make decisions.

We have recently retired and moved house.
We updated our wills. The solicitor advised us to prepare new wills because something in the old ones was did not apply any more.
The new ones are so much clearer and use simple modern English.

We were advised also to do LPAs for both finance and health and welfare.
So we act for each other and the children can act for us. Jointly and severally is the phrase, does not need joint action.
We can now relax knowing we have done all we can. Now to spend what we can!!

it needs to be a proper signatory managing assets thing - which of course only come into play when they are without capacity - never before. It can be written so it can be used when they still have capacity. My father used to manage his everyday spending and his charity giving, I managed his savings.

Having had a year of dealing with a relative's rapid decline with Alzheimer's who thankfully set me up with LPA 10 years ago, I decided to convince my 90 year old dm to do the same. Heartily agree with everyone else - get it done NOW! I've done it all myself from GOV.UK website, cost £80 per LPA, the most trickiest part was finding a non-relative to witness my mum's signature! All friends dead or not able to understand. Luckily we found a willing neighbour.

Do it now ASAP simple

Former bank employee. Good luck to your sister trying to access your parents bank account with a hand written note from your mum. We have POA for my mum which is not required just yet. It was signed by her years ago. It is for me and my sibling and for both financial and health affairs. At the moment I have a separate mandate on my mum's account which allows me to sign cheques, set up and cancel direct debits along with a debit card. It has been invaluable. I also have a card for her PO account. This was all authorised by my mum.
If nothing is done and your parents are no longer fit to run their financial affairs maybe due to dementia then it will be too late for a POA as they will be considered incompetent to sign one. The the Office of Care and Protection will take over their finances. You do not want this to happen believe you me.