Power of attorney while parents are well?

[Neenaw20]

Hi

I’d appreciate some advice. My parents are getting order. Neither are in good health. My mum has Leukaemia and has various other ailments including diabetes, high blood pressure etc. My dad has frontal lobe damage, is more or less deaf and has reduced mobility.

My mums speech has deteriorated significantly recently. She is at times unable to string a sentence together, slurs her words and has lost confidence (not helped by the corona lockdown and isolation). I have been living with my parents for the last 10 months whilst my house has been renovated and have seen a definite change in her behaviour (as has my dad) and we are both worried for her. Her memory and metal capacity appears generally ok. Not great but ok.

I have asked my mum to see a doctor to see if she can get some help for her speech but she has until now refused to acknowledge there is a problem. My dad has also spoken with her. We are now at a stage where she has agreed to see the doctor next week and she is looking into a Power of Attorney. Something I believe is sensible to put in place whilst both parents are well, it wont take away from their ability to look after their affairs at this time but it means I (and my siblings) can help them when required and it can be enforced should anything change in the future which affects mental capacity.

I think it’s the right thing to do and have been advised by many friends and family to put this in place based on their experiences.

My sister is however hesitant about it and feels it’s overkill. She thinks if we just write a note to the institutions that mum needs to speak to (like banks) that this should be adequate.

I am quite frustrated by this. My sister very rarely sees my mum (3-4 times a year) and when she pops by it’s briefly and my mum is on best behaviour. I feel she has no real understanding of the level of support both my parents need (even now). I am also fearful that should anything happen with my parents health then I will be left to puzzle my way through the minefield of legal and financial challenges associated with a lack of power of attorney. I wouldn’t be able to spend the time doing this. I live by myself, I have a full time job which is very demanding and I have my own mortgage and financial commitments which I can’t walk away from.

I suppose I am asking, am I doing the right thing by asking my parents to think proactively about the POA? Or is this overstepping the mark? As said previously, as I understand it, it Is something you should do while you are well in preparation for when you aren’t well. I want to make sure I am in the best position to help my parents. I love them very much.

Like everyone else has said, get it done. At the end of the day if your mum doesn’t want you to have authority she won’t sign. It’s a hard conversation. You and your sister can both be attorneys. When my DH & BIL arranged theirs for my MIL they made the authority ‘jointly and severally’ with anything to do with the property requiring joint authority. If your mother loses mental capacity and there’s no POA it gets very difficult.

Yes get it. I've been trying to sort out a friends affairs as he's just moved into a home . And not allowed out because of Covid. It's been a nightmare because I don't have it. A letter of authority is ok for somethings. I'm not going to get LPA for him as he's not a relative and not my responsibility really.

Just to clarify when I said you don't need to register them. I mean go through the official LPA process so that they are officially registered with the OPG and receive your certified copies.

But each company for example Banks, Councils, GP Surgeries have their own process so that you are registered on their systems to be able to act on behalf of your parent.

That is what meant when I said you don't need to register them.

My sis and I have had POA for my mum for a few years, but never had to use it, because she is fit and well. My mum set it up to make life easier for all of us, should she become unwell. Definitely do it soon before your DM loses capacity.

If they agree, it's a very good idea.

Thank you to everyone who responded. It's been a really difficult time trying to get to grips with my mums illness (a few tears have been shed by me), not really understanding the POA and not really having any support from siblings. Sometimes you wonder whether you are fighting the right battles especially when everyone near you is of a different option so I appreciate your feedback and support.

I'll do some research about setting up a POA using the forms available. It is rather expensive to use a solicitor. I think Heritage were quoting £600 for the financial and health POA for both parents. It's my parents decision whom they choose to empower to manage their affairs. I just want to make sure that they have support when they need it.

If anyone can recommend any good websites that both myself and my parents can look at, please feel free to send through.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/make-a-lasting-power-of-attorney
is the link to the forms. AFAIR they are reasonably easy to complete but you will need various people to cooperate. Also your parents must be compos mentis at the time of signing.

But if you don't have the POA and they become mentally incapacitated, it's then impossible to do the POA this way and you have to involve the OPG. It's a complete disaster and costs quite a lot. Definitely cheaper to get a solicitor to do it now (if you can't work through the forms yourself for free) than to do it later.

One thing that can be useful to do while they are compos mentis is to become a joint signatory on their bank accounts and savings accounts. Then at least you will have the ability to carry on paying domestic bills. But you should agree this with your sister to avoid disputes.

Donor ASAP. My ma died out of the blue fit as a fiddle in her 80s and no need to use the poa (we had both health and finance poa In place).
It takes a while to get to sorted because of all of the witnesses you need.
Hell im in my mid 50s totally ok and have sorted this out with my dp. Last thing I’d want is something unexpected or expected to happen and my do not to be able to make decisions about my health or finances.

Strongly urge you to do this now. My ma was reassured I burr early 80s when we sorted this all out plus living will.

Which are good on wills and POAs link

There's a paywall, but it's not very much. You could subscribe for a couple of months, while you're getting things sorted.

Do it, do it now! I’m medical and it’s a MONUMENTAL amount of bother if no POA in place and there are any kind of care needs later. Protects them, first and foremost, and makes life a hell of a lot more straightforward for you. My husband and I sorted it for each other when we were in our 20s! Need to get on the case for my parents, thanks for the reminder!

Absolutely get the forms fill in , signed, witnesses and registered.

You only use them when necessary

Things to think about are

Firstly who is going to certify that each parent is of sound mind. A neighbour who is happy to put their name to this, and have you witness their signature is ideal.

Secondly how you and your siblings will share will share the power. Jointly and severally means that any one of you can act by yourselves. This makes things eg with banks much easier but you do need to trust each other. Jointly means anything would need all your signatures.

For what it is worth, I never used the POA for my mother's bank account. Set up an online account and administered it from there.

Good luck.

The whole thing about POA is that by the time you need to use it, it’s too late to set it up! My dad had it set up for 20 years before we needed to use it, and dh and I are away to set ours up in the next couple of months

@filka

www.gov.uk/government/publications/make-a-lasting-power-of-attorney is the link to the forms. AFAIR they are reasonably easy to complete but you will need various people to cooperate. Also your parents must be compos mentis at the time of signing.

But if you don't have the POA and they become mentally incapacitated, it's then impossible to do the POA this way and you have to involve the OPG. It's a complete disaster and costs quite a lot. Definitely cheaper to get a solicitor to do it now (if you can't work through the forms yourself for free) than to do it later.

One thing that can be useful to do while they are compos mentis is to become a joint signatory on their bank accounts and savings accounts. Then at least you will have the ability to carry on paying domestic bills. But you should agree this with your sister to avoid disputes.

Thank you for the link and advice. Regarding your comment about 'becoming a joint signatory on their bank accounts' does the POA cover access and management off bank accounts? Would this be required as an additional authority?

Someone suggested further down that perhaps I should organise online access for all accounts and then we can manage their financial affairs that way.

Bank accounts -
Poa only kicks in when they are unable to deal with themselves. You need to register yourself as poa with their bank so that if anything needs to be done in a hurry it isn’t delayed by then registering. I had to make appointment to do so.

Day to day with their consent it easiest simply
To sign them up for online banking BUT depending on their mental capacity
And tech ability administer anything online yourself with their agreement. I used to deal with all of my mums online stiff but only white her permission and in fact I ou when I was that hers so we would do it together so she knew what I was doing for her (bills paid or transfers). She did not ever know the login or password. She continued to use chèques and go into the bank for her £10 withdrawals etc.

In death )sorry) the poa falls away so it was good I had online access to accounts (I was executor if the will) so I could deal with some stuff (estate expenses - funeral, house expenses, etc) before accounts were closed and probate solicitor instructed.

Sorry for all typos.

As for health poa - my ma also had a living will which she attached to her health poa so that we knew hers wishes about variais thing like resuscitation, life support etc.

For money she had me as some poa with others named as alternative. For health all of her children were poa And we could act alone (thought sensible in case of emergency and her living will dictated most things for us).

The forms give you all of the options and the guidance notes are good.

She was really relieved to sort this out for herself and for us.

After death you have to notify and send back originals to be cancelled.

I am right in the middle of doing the LPA for my dad. The hardest part was figuring out who could be the certificate provider to say my dad knew what he was signing (we ended up with old family friend).

The form itself is pretty straightforward I think, so you can do it yourself. But I did call this solicitor which was mentioned on another mumsnet thread and they seemed quite reasonable.

www.marlowwills.co.uk/

I have it fur my mum who is fit and well .. we need to get better about talking about illness and death while we are well and alive imo

LPA must be given by your parents when they have capacity to do so.
There are two types, financial and health/welfare.
You cannot make any decisions without the LPA being registered whilst they retain capacity. You do not need a solicitor at all.
If you are registered you still cannot make decisions they are able to make for themselves, but can act where the decisions are beyond them.
Your parents can ask you to act and give consent for banks etc without LPA, but that right to act stops whenever they lose capacity.
If you aren’t given LPA before they lose capacity you may apply to be their deputy but that isn’t automatic and they may be reliant on professional best interest decision making.

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As an alternative your parents can make an advance directive giving details about the ceiling of care they would want in specific circumstances. That would reward solicitor but offers another option.

Don’t phrase it as discussion about dying or dementia. Maybe ask more who they would trust to make decisions for them if they had an accident or became acutely unwell.

Do it ASAP. Brother and I did this for our Dad. No solicitors involved. He had to consent to application and sign forms. Once registered,Finacial LPA can be activated at anytime. Health and welfare can only be activated if deemed to lack capacity. We used Government website it was excellent.
Forms seem daunting but just work through them

Yes do this straightaway as advised by everyone above. My husband is just taking early retirement and his pension advisor has said we should do this now so it is there when needed. Its a long form but not difficult, you can do it yourself without a problem and send off to OPG for registration. Well worth it

Yes, I’m in the process of doing it for DM as we just lost my DF suddenly (in his 80s). I have set up a 3rd part mandate with one of the banks so I can administer her accounts with them. That was straightforward, we went in together and they did it on the spot.

Do it ASAP. If you think you need to use it bits probably too late... it needs to be done before then. Soooo many people only think about it once a parent has dementia. By then you are into capacity assessments which can often only be done privately by old age psychiatrists, despite solicitors saying just get your GP to sign it, it is a big legal declaration and GP ones can easily be thrown out of court by a determined barrister (as GP is non specialist) if families fall out with each other and contest which is sadly not that uncommon. If not deemed to have capacity to understand what they are signing it all needs to go to court of protection.

my husband and I did them with our Wills in our 20s.