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Elderly parents

Responsibility for Elderly Parents? Support thread right here!

997 replies

Needmoresleep · 01/09/2014 09:08

Several of us are on the same journey. Some more difficult than others, some longer than others, but none easy. Feel free to share tears, rants or laughter with others who will understand.

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CMOTDibbler · 11/01/2015 19:25

I think SugarPlums suggestion about a solicitors letter is a very good idea as you can't go on managing all those properties with him being obstructive by lack of response.

And all I have for your SIL is a great big raspberry. Not mature I know!

Needmoresleep · 12/01/2015 10:09

Thank you everyone. I had managed to put them to one side but the dysfunctional family issues had to be tackled at some point. I'm no pyschologist but a few times over the past few years I have felt overwhelmed without obvious cause and a couple of sleepless nights and a lot of thinking has helped me work out what the issue is and what I might do.

Like others I am unlikely to resolve the family issues. I suspect they have their roots way back in childhood. For whatever reason my relationship with my brother has got worse over the past couple of years. Whilst I am hoping for a thank you, he just seems to have got angrier, effectively blaming me for his lack of engagement.

I also suspect I am far from alone in feeling a level of resentment when faced with the "I am too busy so you need to do it" line. It implies somehow that my life and that of DH are so much less sucessful, that our time does not hold value.

Everyone is right on needing to engage a solicitor. The problem to date has been that an Attorney is not able to recharge these costs. DMs income far exceeds her outgoings (apologies to anyone who sees this as a supreme example of MN stealth boasting, others will be able to confirm that though money is useful it adds tensions and causes motives to be questioned. DH and I are certainly resolved to make sure that we do not pass similar problems on to our children) and has essentially doubled since I took over. Of every additional pound earned, 30p goes to my brother and 40p to the tax man, not providing a great incentive to start investing in legal costs. I had a go at trying to get her lawyer to provide advice on the basis that I was trying to tidy things up for probate (there will be a fairly hefty IH tax bill to pay, a concern given assets tied up in property) but no go. Not necessarily a bad thing. I was already underwhelmed at finding a number of my dad's bank accounts still open several years after his death, plus the lack of any attempt to restructure the asset portfolio. (I'm getting the vocabulary. It looks like I have been doing this for ages. Instead I like most people, have a mortgage, not savings and so have had a crash course in personal finance. Take a bow Martin Lewis and This is Money.)

The interesting thing about being an Attorney is that you are obliged to manage assets actively and that you are potentially criminally liable if you fail to carry out your duties properly. When I am in a complete funk this can feel like modery day slavery. More rationally having got so far, I am not going to run away from it all by writing to OPG and stepping down, but need to decouple and rationalise obligations to my mother, and what is effectively, management of her future estate. I don't want to give up the first. Back to the investment terminology, and assuming she lives a further 10 years, the NPV of 30% (eg my share) of the marginal return on active management is not worth my time.

I like CMOTs phrase "being obstructive by lack of response". There have already been a few decisions where my concern about being careful not to be perceived as taking advantage of my position have out-trumped mine and my mother's interests. For example I wanted to leave a property empty for me to use on trips, and to be available for wider family thus providing an incentive for wider family to visit. The reality is that, much as I wish that were not the case, wider family would not have used it, so it would have looked as if I were snaffling a rather delux second home for my own use. Instead we have ended up buying yet another property, paying my mother proper interest, so less liquidity, more income for her, more costs for us and yet another property to manage.

I am lucky that I have an approachable and practical accountant and conveyancing lawyer, but need to find a similar estate/attorney specialist who will hold my hand over decisions I need to make. I have not really had to use a lawyer before for anything other than buying property, and limited experience suggests that some are very very risk adverse. Not what you want when essentially you are paying for someone who will help off-load risks by endorsing decisions.

Not least my mother would genuinely like to use her surplus income to support charities dear to her and DFs heart and also those people and organsations which have helped her over the past few years. She can't spend it any other way. Yet under POA rules there does not seem to be a mechanism to allow this, and now no scope to add bequests to her Will. Though her memory is very poor so her capacity to make informed decisions is diminished, she is fine in the moment and consistent about this and about which charities she is interested in. I really hope we can find a way for her to give back.

One thing putting me off selling property was how much time it would take, plus the added responsibility of then having to manage the proceeds, but it needs to be done.

Silver linings have included the fact that we are now much more financially savvy ourselves (I now know what a SIPP is!) and that our own attitude to money has changed. Having enough is important, but there is nothing to admire in having too much.

Thank you everyone for allowing me my indulgence. I am essentially playing some form of bizarre Monopoly, whilst others are dealing with real and very difficult issues. Looking at the carers forum on Talking Point is a very swift way of bringing me back down to earth. Next project is finding a lawyer. Sugar, I have been asking contacts who will have had dealings with various local lawyers, but do you have any suggestions. Once I find a mechanism which allows me to move forward, I should be less irritated by DB.

DC are at an age where we are not sure whether they will come on holiday with us or make their own plans, so I am not sure that we plan to do much anyway. That can be next year's project.

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whataboutbob · 15/01/2015 14:12

Hi NMS, lots to think about in your post. It is understandable that the long term nature of caring for your mother's affairs causes resentment. Also your brother's high and mighty attitude must really grate. Sometimes on the Alzheimer's Soc forum some people go into meltdown, saying they are contacting the office of the public guardian to relinquish the POA, after yet another meddling sibling has criticised their actions. Or because social services are providing no support. Personally i am also feeling a level of fatigue with the whole thing, realising that Dad will be around for years and I will carry all the decision making and firefighting, it's hard. And hard to admit to, because the only way out is for him to die. I don't know what to advise NMS, none of this is easy. But maybe doing more for yourself is a good place to start.

SugarPlumTree · 15/01/2015 15:58

Flowers for you both. I am the sibling now who is saying 'actually could you contact my Brother about this as he is Health and Welfare Attorney'. I did this earlier and he had a mini melt down after a series of emails with two CH's today (not at me). I do feel a bit guilty but not too much as what goes around comes around and all that.

My Mother's carpet stinks of urine snd she is refusing to let them deep clean it or wear her bandages so they have done a referral to Safeguarding as an infection risk.

I had the thought that this is no life for her earlier as she us quite tormented mentally at the moment -thought my Brother was on the Manager's office settling up to take her away then confused to hear he isn't in the country. She keeps saying there is a missing piece to all the info people give her and she needs to find it so think she is quite aware of her deficits.

I had that moment when I realised death or totally losing cognitive function is the only way she is likely to have any peace of mind . Sobering thought.

twentyten · 15/01/2015 21:24

It is a sobering thought. My dm has just had steroid injections( all sorted by me) and is feeling better- and I realise too she may well be around for a long time...... Needing increasing help with absent brothers no use at all. Feel guilty feeling that and glad that her pain is reducing but aware of all the chain of things needing sorting.... This is our life too... We have a right to quality of life. I am carving out small treats for me and doing what I can.... But trying to protect myself, my dh( whose mum died from dementia in October and whose dad keeps asking for his mum.....) and find some joy. And my dd who is doing a2's and making major life decisions. ThanksThanks To you all.

CMOTDibbler · 18/01/2015 12:06

Hope everyone is doing OK today?

A smile for me on Thursday, when I saw a sign at my local leisure centre advertising an exercise group for those with dementia Smile I could only picture my mum at it causing chaos.

My ds(8) has been asking me to tell him funny stories from my childhood, and after one about mums jam never really setting, and making yogurt in the airing cupboard, he wanted to talk to her about it. I had to explain again about how she wouldn't understand or remember, and dad would be upset remembering how she was Sad

Something new has brought her pleasure though - dad picked up a toddlers book with buttons to press to play music thinking of it for my brothers son, and mum adores it. No interest in the text, but pressing the buttons for bits of the Nutcracker is absorbing. I'd have never thought of that.

twentyten · 18/01/2015 16:44

How lovely about the book cmot- who would have thought? Just got back from a lunch out with dfil( in a wheelchair post stroke) and dh's family. Fil was really pleased to see all these "lovely ladies" - his 4 granddaughters without a clue who they were- or we were. He looked happy though. Still asking where his wife was( died in October).

Just keep swimming!

SugarPlumTree · 18/01/2015 18:35

That is a great with the book, wouldn't have thought of that either. I do feel with you, 8 is a hard age to get to grips with this. I think it got to DD the other day and she made a sharp exit before the dying scene in a film on Euthanasia. She said it made her think of her Grandmother.

Brother's friend has apparently volunteered to take my Mum out to my Brother beginning of next month. Watch this space.

My Dad had his cataract done on Friday after a very long wait as he had shingles when it was supposed to have been done. All fine but he isn't one of those who can see perfectly the next day (can take a couple of weeks). I'm finding he is needing more moral support these days.

PingPongBat · 20/01/2015 20:23

Lovely to hear about the book CMOT. And Sugar - good to hear that your Dad’s eye is finally ‘done’ – hope he recovers his sight nice & quickly. Even the simplest medical things seem to be fraught with complications for the elderly.

I’ve had a chat with the DCs about mum & her illness, I think DD in particular is keen to hear more of my dad’s stories. He told her one the other day about having a very nasty blister on his finger, going to A&E, seeing a ‘witch doctor’ Shock, being given a general anaesthetic & waking up with a plaster from his elbow to the ends of his fingers, which amused her a lot.

Last week it was all about what mum’s (completely lovely) MacMillan nurse can help with, & it looks like loads, which is great. She’s sorting out all sorts of stuff, explaining her role, looking into respite care, pain control etc etc. She’s going to get their benefits person to go & see them to do an application for Attendance Allowance too. I have my doubts about whether mum will qualify as I think she may fail the ‘habitual residence’ test, but if they class her condition as a terminal illness then she doesn’t have to ‘pass’ this test. We shall see, I’ve warned dad not to get his hopes up.

This week it’s mum’s apparent deterioration. We’re not sure what’s going on, but her back is more & more painful, so bad she can only lie in one position and is taking sleeping pills and the maximum pain killers she’s allowed, and is still in pain. She’s also slowed down considerably in the last fortnight, can only walk a few steps & is really very shaky & weak. She’s hardly eating. I think she’s just trying to keep going to get her affairs in order and will then give up. Dad thinks it’s the end Sad. DB is going to be staying with them a few nights a week from next week, so we’ve been talking about how he can lighten the load on dad, and help mum with little things in the house.

Sorry to be so despondent. I'm hoping she will rally, but I can't see how.

twentyten · 20/01/2015 21:44

So sorry ping pong. Glad your Macmillan nurse is helpful- please get all the help you can.take care.

Needmoresleep · 20/01/2015 22:03

Ping Pong I am so sorry to hear this. Best wishes to all.

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SugarPlumTree · 21/01/2015 20:10

Really sorry to hear this Pingpong, thinking of you.

PingPongBat · 22/01/2015 18:07

Dad's just rung to say they're going to A&E. Mum was supposed to have blood taken by the community nurse today for tests, but the nurse never turned up (dad described this as a 'complete cock-up'), so he rang the MacMillan Unit & they've told him to take her in straight away.

I cooked dinner at theirs last night, DH & DCs there too, which was lovely particularly for dad as it really cheered him up. Afterwards DH said it was the worst he had seen mum since she was in hospital for 3 weeks in September. Just need to wait for dad to ring me to let me know how she is. I'm feeling shaky & a bit powerless. Perhaps I should have offered to go with them. I don't know.

SugarPlumTree · 22/01/2015 18:12

Would it make you feel better to go ? Sometimes the waiting is worse. Put the kettle on a minute, have a cuppa and see how you feel Flowers

PingPongBat · 22/01/2015 18:46

Just helped mum into the car. She made Dad pack a picnic... Dad said she's panicking. Mum told me dad's panicking. I've made him promise he'll ring me later. And that I'll take over / help if needed.

CMOTDibbler · 22/01/2015 18:50

Sorry to hear that. Make sure you have some dinner now so if your dad calls later you aren't running on empty

twentyten · 22/01/2015 20:37

So sorry.As others have said,make sure you eat when you can. Take care.

SugarPlumTree · 27/01/2015 19:04

How are things Pingpong? Flowers

Could I have a vent please ? Two weeks we have been telling the CH we are fairly sure she has a UTI. One minute they say they have tested her and it is clear, next they haven't tested hwr because she won't let them , yet another conversation they dipped urine and she is showing signs of infection but then back tracked by end of it and still she isn't on Antibiotics. They managed to put in a safeguarding referral for her unbandadged legs on urine soaked carpet but have failed to treat the probable cause, despite a number of conversations requesting it.

She's in a right state, can't talk on the phone and told my Brother in the tiny conversation he had with her that she can't stand up and is very distressed. Friday I spoke to her and she sounded slurry, I think she has had another TIA. The Care Manager was most surprised when I mentioned it.

Thank goodness my Brother spoke to a very helpful receptionist at GP and has requested the Duty GP writes prescription and gets it to them today plus he has a telephone consultation with her GP when he is back Thursday. I need to get on there and see what is going on and whether she really can't walk. We think she has had a TIA plus has a UTI and a cellulitis flare.

twentyten · 27/01/2015 21:16

So sorry sugar-and how are you ping pong?

Its so hard from a distance-well done for what you are doing.

PingPongBat · 27/01/2015 22:17

Sorry to hear that sugar - the CH needs shaking up, by the sound of it.

Things not good here. Mum still in hospital, dad in tears a lot of the time & simply cannot cope any more. DB no 2 has just spent 2 nights with him and is very worried about his mental state & exhaustion. I'm holding up while at work & home, but cried on my way home from work in the car.

Dad's told mum that he can't have her at home in her current condition, he simply cannot cope with it. So she simply cannot be discharged to home, he can't care for her in the way she needs to be cared for any more. She desperately needs better pain relief for her back, is ringing the call bell every 10 minutes, but apparently the pain control team consists of 2 people for the entire hospital and they never come when they say they will as they are completely overstretched. The nurses are incredibly patient but little is being done to actually address her pain.

Dad said he's so tired he said he nearly crashed the car coming home today. I'm driving him to hospital tomorrow morning to await the consultant, then taking him home for lunch where we can talk, away from mum. I will also drive him back to the hospital later in the day if he feels he needs to go for another hour or so. But he simply cannot keep on spending 6 hours a day sitting in her room - it's driving him to distraction.

I'm also pondering whether to email my aunt (dad's younger sister) in Australia to sound her out about coming over. She told mum a few years ago that she would, to support dad, if needed. Mum doesn't want me to tell dad I'm emailing her, but I don't want to do it behind his back. I'm kind of pinning my hopes on some more concrete information about her prognosis tomorrow, before possibly going down that route. DB no. 2 not sure about this either, DH thinks I should email her & simply tell it like it is. Might ring DB no. 1 tomorrow to ask his opinion. God it's hard, so hard, I'm just shattered.

Needmoresleep · 28/01/2015 10:22

Hi all.

My wobbly at the start of the year seems resolved. So often during this process I have felt overwhelmed but not clear what the problem was, so not able to find a solution. When complicated family relationships are thrown into a hard enough mix, it is often not obvious.

Anyway solution in case it is useful for others.

I have found a law firm local to my mum who provide attorney type servies, mainly for people without family. They are set up to organise care packages, choose a care home etc, and even have someone who does things like take people who can use cash machines their weekly pocket money. They come with strong recommendations.

I realise part of my concern/resentment was that I faced a decade of dreading phone calls. Recently its not been anything serious, but there will be a point when it will be. The remaining concern was that if I was incapacitated/unavailable the burden would fall to my husband or even to my children. For the first time since DC were born, DH and I have been doing a lot of travelling up and down the motorway together and without them.

So, and something I did not know about before, a simple will with a letter of wishes attached to it. This letter can be altered as DC get older, but at the moment would suggest passing the financial side to the trusted family accountant and the management of care to this firm. Apparently letters of wishes don't carry legal weight but can provide a useful route map when it comes to probate.

I am hoping that I will then also have somewhere to turn for help should I be incapacitated, or simply want to take a holiday.

Coupled with this is a resolve that though I can't get my brother to participate in any decision making, I need to rationalise my dad's buy-to-let property. I understand that he was looking for a retirement hobby, but I need to be free to decide how to live my own life. As it is the property market is pretty dead, and I am probably obliged to try to achieve the best possible value, but still its something I can work towards in the medium term.

So thanks everyone. And best wishes to everyone, especially those who are facing acute crises.

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whataboutbob · 28/01/2015 14:14

Hello all. Haven't posted so much lately as haven't been to Dad's for a couple of week, after going there frequently over Christmas and New Year. There have been ups and downs including a short hospital admission but basically Dad is ticking over at home with his all day carers and my bro. The dementia team still think an admission to a nursing home would require sectioning and the bottom line is I don't want to put Dad through that.
PingPong so sorry to hear about your Mum. Your poor Dad must be really exhausted. I hope your aunt is helpful, but just wanted to warn you. In my experience, with 1st my grandad's sister and then my Dad's siblings- they have wanted the problem tidied up, at a distance and without any involvement from themselves. Ie for me to put them in care. I have actually fallen out on the phone with my aunt because she combined intrusiveness and bosiness with promises of help which never materialised. In my darker moments I have felt really pissed off with my Dad's siblings but now accept no help will be forthcoming and I just have to crack on. As I Aam sure you know hospitals have a legal duty to ensure discharges are safe. Is there a discharge nurse on your mum's ward? Could they send her to a rehabilitation unit before she comes home? Or maybe offer a re enablement package at home, with carers, OT/ physio going in regularly. These are things that are routinely offered on the ward I work on.
NMS- reading your post I am reminded that when I was at a low ebb one day I made DH promise that if anything happened to me, he would not lift a finger for my Dad and brother but would concentrate on our kids. In Dad's case, I am sure social services would swing into action. Really you have done so much already and it is totally OK to look for ways of getting rid of certain obligations.
SugarPlum sorry to hear about your mum's ongoing problems. I agree it sounds like the CH is not tackling the problem adequately. As the home's GP has responsibility for the residents, maybe a letter to her/ him outlining the events and your concerns would be helpful?

SugarPlumTree · 28/01/2015 17:52

NMS I'm glad you found a positive solution and I'm sure that post will help others in the future.

Pingpong, I'm sorry to hear about your poor parents. DH'S approach sounds sensible then your Aunt can decide if she wants to come.

Bob, glad things are ticking over and fingers crossed that continues as long as possible. Fully understand why you ddon't want him to be sectioned.

I have spent a good few hours at the NH today and think I have been harsh. She isn't on a UTI specific AB as GP feel the one for legs is broad spectrum enough. NH can't test urine as she won't give a sample and she is incontinent and uses pads.

She will now finally go to bed (was sleeping in a chair) which has reduced pooling of the fluid in her legs and swelling reduced a fair bit but District Nurse said they are pretty raw. GP and Psych team also out today. She possibly has a chest infection and indeed she is now unable to walk. Big deterioration, sleeping loads, very paranoid and I had to ask if this is the beginning of the end. They aren't sure, it may just be the infections. I think it may well be her body packing up.

My Brother is not taking this very well and is convinced it is poor care. I thought that until today but have changed my mind a fair bit actually seeing what is going in he has Lawyered up and is talking to her GP tomorrow but saying he wants a private specialist and was earlier saying he wants her admitted to a private hospital as he thinks they coukd get her well enough so she could then fly. I personally can not see how she can possibly ever be well enough to fly ever again but he says the CH owner over there has experience of flying very sick people out and it will be possible. I think the idea of her dying and never seeing his child scares the shit out of him.

PingPongBat · 28/01/2015 23:08

Mum is too ill to go home but the hospital can't do any more for her. Saw haematology consultant, pain control nurse, physio, Macmillan nurse. Sat with Mum almost all day trying to get her comfortable, cut up her food, hold her drink etc.

She's now got an air mattress to try and make her more comfortable. Showing signs of pressure sores on her heels (ward sister very concerned about this & is on the case).

CHC assessment tomorrow morning, funding pretty much guaranteed according to the palliative care nurse. The aim is to get her into a nursing home early next week. (How do we choose? If we even get a choice.)

Consultant thinks she will live about 3 months. Her blood counts are so poor, she's almost completely immobile, weak as a kitten, hardly eating or drinking. Her body is giving up.

So.... I've spent the evening on the phone to mum's brother, & my 2 brothers telling them all this. Back to hospital tomorrow for the assessment.

Needmoresleep · 28/01/2015 23:41

Oh Ping Pong. That is so sad. Flowers

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