2:2 now not a 'good enough' degree?

[Cortina]

I saw a thread, earlier today, I think on AIBU. Someone was cruising for a 2:2 at Uni. They said that this wasn't enough to secure employment and many were agreeing.

In my day, insert old git icon , a 2:2, especially from a well regarded university, was a perfectly respectable degree.

Have things really changed so much?

2:2 also called drinkers degree universally amongst everyone I know.

I have a 2.2.

I got it through the highly-respected OU while working full time, including giving birth 7 weeks before my finals and losing 4 pints of blood.

I deliberately chose subjects that I would find hard, because I didn't want a degree that was easy to get.

I also have an IQ of 154 and a Masters in Education, so my 2.2 doesn't bother me in the least.

I would normally resist, but on a thread where academic excellence is being discussed....

It is DEFINITELY, not definately.

When I graduated in teaching in 1996 most teaching positions expected you to have a 2i, although the university you went to was less important in that field.

I don't think much has changed in that sense.

I always lol at the comment people make such as "it's no law degree." My DH did a law degree. I did teaching. I know which of us has the most work to do on our course and I know which course had just 4 hours of lectures in one of the years too!

I got a third. I went to 2 institutions and it took me 6 years to get a degree that should have taken me 6.

I had an awful lot of growing up to do and for me at the tender age of 18, going to university was more about escaping my strict upbringing and getting as far away from home as possible.

I went through quite a lot during those years and despite my poor result I was so proud when I finally graduated - as I had to overcome a lot of obstacles to get there. I don't give a toss what anybody else thinks about it either!

Despite my third, I have a career and a job I love. I started doing voluntary work after university and it all took off from there. I have bucketloads of experience in my field and I have always got an interview with every job I've ever applied for. I've since done various qualifications related to my work which carry far more weight than my degree - The class of my degree matters so little.

Sorry I meant it took me 6 years to get a degree which should have taken me 3!

I can't remember a degree ever being a guarantee of a job. It doesn't really qualify you for anything unless you do a very vocational degree. There are a few careers where you can join the 'milk round', but in my experience most people enter the workplace at a the bottom of the ladder and work their way up, degree or no degree. That's not to say it's not worth doing a degree, just that it isn't a magic key to a well paid job.

I do think an OU degree is worth doing, but more because a person with an OU degree will probably be able to back up their degree with work experience. Also, the person doing it, having some work experience, is perhaps more likely to have chosen a course that will lead to better job prospects.

It's true - vocationally related qualifications and professional exams, in some fields, count for a lot more but you often don't have them when you apply as a graduate.

GetOrfMoiLand your DD is sensible, the RAF will pay for it while she is training and she will have no debt at the end of it.

babysplotface, I'm an academic at a RG university. Our external examiners (who come in to verify the work of the internal exam board and carry out vivas for borderline candidates) are from a range of institutions, not just other RG universities.

In our case, the course I am involved in is a professional degree, which has to be externally accredited by the professional body.

So, it appears I have a desmond drinkers' degree

I worked in graduate recruitment and I don't think anything has changed since the last recession. Obviously a 2:1 is preferable to a 2:2, but where ytu study does matter. I have never understood how people argue that a 2:2 from an old poly = a 2:2 from a Russell Group Univeristy. No-one with any sense would argue that those going to the Russell Group uni are generally brighter, so how can the degree fail to be anything but better.

Having said all that, in the profession I worked in, A levels were as important if not more important than degree as they were felt at the time to be a better indicator of learning ability/IQ.

Degrees have been downgraded as everyone thinks it will get them a good job, but all it gets you is a lot of debt and stress.
Better off, starting from the bottom, working your way up and then training.
Sorry, but unless you are training to be a Doctor or a Scientist then that is the only way to go from now on.

I have a 2:2 and it has never held me back, but then it is in pharmacy, so it is also vocational. Just after I graduated I went on holiday with several friends from uni. They all had 2:1s but I was the only one with a job. I do think the choice of subject is important and when kids are appling they should be encouraged to think beyond uni. I nearly did a maths degree but read a peice on suggested jobs with differant degrees and didn't like the look of any on the maths list. Studying a subject of the love of it is great as long as you are not led to belive it will automaticaly get you a job.

I;ve 3 children who are graduated relatively recently. Many employers want 2/1s. When I graduated 15% of people went to university and only a third of those got 2/1 or higher (I got a 2.1) so that was about 5% of 18 year olds getting a 2/1 or higher.

Alsoyes A level grades matter too.

However if you are excellent at what you do you can do fine whatever . It just makes it harder at the start and yes everyone knows the ex polys will not be as well regarded as other institutions. NOthing stops a teenager going on line and finding that out. No one is hiding things from anyone so if they choose an ex poly they need to be happy to live with the consequences.

I got a 2:2 after a bout of glandular fever. Managed to get myself onto a top 10 management training scheme through academic references but more crucially 12 months unpaid labour in the relevant field. A 2:1 is not everything!

Dp got a 2:2 because a week before we discovered I was pg I then collapsed while he was in his exam (suspected ectopic) was rushed to hospital dp walked out of exam (my friend txted him), and came away with a 2:2 from mostly coursework.

The nurse gave me a right telling off because when I saw him I told him between sobs he was so stupid and should of stayed in his exam.

Dp took over a year to get a job and is now on a graduate training job but a low one but he will never have a high flying career.

What subject would you say you could get away with a 2:2?

I have always told my children that qualifications don't actually get you jobs, etc they just open some doors for you but then you have to prove yourself.

My DS and his friends graduated from a good uni last year, all with 2:1s and many are still out of work. The degree may get you to an interview but the things that seemed to impress prospective employers into making job offers were his setting up and running a small business with a friend and doing voluntary work.

Like a previous poster I have a 2:2 degree (mine is from the 80s) and have never had any problem but I changed jobs last year after being qualified 25+yrs and it was the first time I had ever been asked what degree I got. I still got the job but degree class does seem to carry more weight now than it did

I suppose if you are the kind of politician who has moved seamlessly from student politics to being a career politician, you might easily confuse spending 3 years having a lovely time in the student bar, and studying a subject that might or might not be relevant to anybody else with preparing yourself to enter the work force.

It never was good enough for a first-class career (am 43 btw). There are exceptions but still, those are rare. Situation must be much worse now, what with so many young 'uns going to university and so few graduate jobs.

My firm will not accept anyone without a 2i and AABB at A level. The cvs don't even get read. Just binned.

I think one thing is though that a few years ago, a 2(i) was a "good" degree and a 2(ii) was an average one. When I did my degree, the degree classes were worked out based on % of students in each class and therefore one year 69% might only have got you a 2(i), but a year later, 68% might have got you a first.

These days they work with absolute marks, so 68% will never be a first, unless there are some kind of extenuating circumstances. This has the consequence that an average degree these days is a 2(i) and a poor degree is a 2(ii).

I graduated nearly 20 years ago [old emoticon] and even then a 2ii was not good enough for some jobs. IIRC to be guaranteed a place at bar school you needed a first or a 2i (which I had)with a 2ii you were on the waiting list. It was the same with PG study I know of someone who lost a place on an LLM because they got a 2ii instead of a 2i.
I suspect it has only got worse.

Arf at the inclusive bar and not needing connections

I finished uni in 96 with a 2:2, and at the time I was just mightily relieved it wasn't a 3rd. But I always knew I'd be going into some kind of public sector work so I wasn't as obsessed with the classification as friends who wanted to do the graduate schemes with big city firms. One of my good friends cried for hours after getting a 2:2, another begged and pleaded with her tutor for re-marking. Both turned out pretty successful.

I went back to uni and got a 2:1 second time round which I was very pleased with but again it didn't really matter as that was a vocational degree (Occupational Therapy). In interviews your degree isn't considered at all, you just need to have one. It's your clinical and people skills that are more important. Having said that it's becoming more common for trusts to want the higher level staff to have MSc's.

Regarding the uni you go to, I went to a very good uni the first time and a pretty crap ex-poly second time round. If I changed my career employers would look much more favourably on my 2:2 than my 2:1 (so thats me on the reject pile then!)

Not sure if this was covered as I couldn't bring myself to read all 9 pages TBH but....
someone earlier was concerned that they needed to send their children to a Russel group uni. RG unis are large and take up a large proportion of research funding in the UK. There are smaller unis that are consisitently in the Times top ten of British universities. So I don't think RG is the be all and end all BUT I definitely believe going to the best uni you can is important especially now.

i got a 2:2+ 5 years ago. have been told by my boss that they have learnt that its not always the 1st class student that are good at the job, (i work for the nhs with a health care based degree) they may well be good at the theory but terrible at practical and have no patient skills. im now finishing my pgc (working towards masters) and somehow getting higher marks for m level that i did at bsc level.

I teach at Oxbridge.I'd say these days lazy but bright students get 2:1 degrees. You have to be spectacularly bad to end up with a 2:2. Some of my very worst students, the sort that make you wonder how they got in at all, have ended up with middling 2:1s. My older colleagues assure me that this is not the way it was in the Olden Days, but that's how it is now.

My dad's two best friends both had 3rds from Oxford and have gone on to extraordinary career success. Not sure that would happen so easily now, but plenty of people don't reveal their talents at university.