Private or state - I am never happy and feel so lost

[MamiSandra]

Hi

I am really worried we are making a complete dog's dinner of our oldest son's education.

He is now in Year 3 at our local state primary.

Before he started school, we always assumed he would be going to private school. At the time we could afford it and simply didn't trust the state system to be up for it.

We visited the local state school anyhow and were of course not very surprised at the much less impressive facilities compared to the prep school.

We live in a beautiful village and literally at the last minute, it occurred to us that maybe it would be nice if our son was part of the local community. The children at the prep school all lived miles away. Then there was also the concern about possible incompatibility with snobby parents (I am sorry, but I am just not like that, though I know not all of them are).

In the end, we decided to give the state school a shot. However, half-way through the Reception year it became clear that he was not progressing at all. He was simply never read with at school or given any attention. His confidence was going downhill all the time. I was pregnant at the time and had builders in. On reflection, he didn't get enough support from us during this time. We of course immediately blamed the state school. We branded ourselves stupid for ever assuming that a state school could be good enough, took him about 6 weeks before the end of Reception and put him into the prep school.

Luckily, he settled really well and we were happy for the moment.

As time went on through Year 1 and Year 2 at the prep school, I grew more and more disillusioned. I could not get on with the other parents (and I am not difficult, but I simply do not get off on labels, fast cars and shopping), the school turned out to be a right Piccadilly circus (our son lost three friends within a few months due to their leaving and there was a constant stream of new starters) and I noticed that his peers at the state primary appeared much happier and progressing well. And then of course there was the money. We had four children in total - a big expense long term, though the other three weren't at school yet.

When it was time for our twins to start school, we did the unthinkable and chose the state school. Then our oldest asked if he couldn't go back to the state school, too. Suddenly, it call seemed to make sense. That we didn't give it enough time in Reception, that he hadn't been supported by us, that we panicked, that we are wasting our money paying for private school when there was a good village state school on our doorstep etc. etc.

So our oldest moved back into the primary half way through Year 2 (and was received with a round of applause from his old mates - went back into the same class) and our twins started Reception.

The twins are doing really great. They are completely different characters to our oldests. Very intelligent and very keen to learn. Our oldest is intelligent, but not so keen to learn - and this is where my dilemma lies now.

He is falling behind in Year 3. I am not at all sure that every day is fully productively spent. I have visions of the children watching lots of TV and just generally drifting. I can see that he is struggling with Maths, though his English is very good. I have asked his teacher and she just brushes my concerns aside, saying all is well. Apparently, other parents at the school have heard those sort of reassurances about their children, only to then be told in Year 6 that there is a big problem.

Now I feel it was a mistake to take him out of the prep school. They would have ironed out any learning difficulties. Now I feel on my own. Should I pay for a private tutor? How can I feel so terribly insecure about the whole thing? I just cannot work out what was/is the best thing to do? I feel I would not be happy in the prep school (where the school day from Year 3 ends at 4.30 pm plus homework, so zero home life, friends, time to go to the park after school etc.). What is childhood all about? Our son is happy at his present school, but is this all at the cost of his education?

Please help me sort my head out.

Thanks for reading my ramble.

Sandra

Just saw some more replies to my post. Thank you so much to cranbury, eatyourveg and choosyfloosy. Your replies have been really great and supportive.

So, of all the replies I have received, only one said to move him back to private. This I will not do. I will take up relaxation classes instead, I think ....

choosyfloosy, thanks for the suggestions on the learning materials. By the way, I did become a class helper last week and yes, being a fly on the wall helps to reassure me.

MamiSandra - you brought a lump to my throat when you said my comment helped. You sound a very caring mother. I recognise myself in you - the anxiety about it all and the jumping to fix things quickly. Looking back I realise worrying about whether he's on a certain book level or top group maths doesn't matter. They all get there with supportive parents and if you can foster a love of learning. Too much pressure to perform can turn them off. My son' is year 7 now. Between years 4 and 6 I didn't notice that big a jump in maths ability. If you look at the Letts books for instance they seem to do maths topics in year 4 (fractions for example) and then again in years 5 and 6, the same topics just a bit more complex. It really isn't the big step you realise. It's more about consolidation and building on each stage - and the schools go over and over it. Nothing to worry about. You're doing fine.

Definitely get a tutor. My son was tutored from the age of 7 and enjoyed it (it was because he was dyslexic and the school did v little with him).

You might also consider getting a proper Educational Phychologist's assessment done on him (don't tell the school) so that you have an idea of his strengths and are not trying to push him beyond his capabilities.

The simple fact is prep schools cannot be allowed to fall behind state schools in tables - because people pay hard earned cash for them.

The other reason is usually class sizes - my DS in class of 30, if we move him to private school overseas there are 8 in his class! That's when strugglers get the support and 1 to 1.

DS is great in somethings not so good in others. Just like his dad [not me of course practically perfect in every way !
Some things in maths he struggled with so we logged onto Mathletics and he has really got on well with it. Try the cheap alternatives first.

I agree with one poster on here - do you visit the school? IMO there are some parents who use schools like free childcare, and there are those parents who want kids to maximise their opportunities. You sound like the latter, but if you aren't communicating this to the school they won't know. Perhaps make an appointment to see teacher and head and tell them your fears?

Get the CRB check form from them and get involved, you'll soon get a taste of life in the school. What is the ofsted report like?
It's no good comparing a prep school to, for instance, a school slipping into special measures status for instance.

Son's school is ofsted outstanding and I am GUTTED that I will have to pay nearly £20000 a year to possibly receive the same schooling outside the UK.

I had a big dilemma choosing state vs private for dd1. Someone wisely told me whichever I chose I would find fault with. I always remember that when I'm feeling a bit like you (we went for state btw)

Yes, there's no such thing as a perfect school. But if your DC is happy there that is the main thing - everything else will follow from there.

And I would echo the sentiment that you should not let your personal feelings about parents etc get in the way - it is not YOU who is attending the school!

It's a bit of a myth that state school children are a year behind, (You probably only read that in private school literature!) so don't panic about that. Some will be - those from disadvantaged backgrounds or who aren't that bright. However, a bright happy child will do very well in a state school. (Speaking as one who did!).

My dds are in a state school that gets appalling sats results because of the intake of the school but my children themselves are well ahead of any children we know in other schools (private or state) because their school loves the bright, well behaved children as well as being able to support those with SEN.

If you son is happy, enjoy that feeling. All sorts of awful things can disrupt a child's happiness in their teenage years and it's very important to enjoy this stage when there isn't a great deal to worry about.

Ok, it's important that children learn to read, write and do maths, but all but the most disadvantaged children will do that.

You were very honest in your posting! Lots of people think like you but the important thing is to relax and enjoy and - if you are nervous - get a tutor.

But, do enjoy these years!

Some private primary schools (usually selective ones) do work a year or even 2 ahead of even the best state schools - as state schools are not selective and the pace of work will tend to be dictated by the average ability in the class. It is difficult to give advanced work to the more able if there is a large class to look after. I have seen this as my DD is doing work that is more advanced than her friend who is 2 years older and is in top stream at a very good state school.

Not sure if it is a big issue though - I think it all evens out by the time they come to GCSE stage.

I really think the most important thing at the moment is for your DC to feel happy and settled in whichever school they go to.

If maths isn't his strong suit then it's very important he learns his tables and number bonds well so that he doesn't fall further behind when he goes on to more advanced stuff. So I think you're right to be concerned that he isn't managing to learn his tables, whether or not he's academic or good at Maths. I assume you've done all the standard stuff like getting song CDs?

A lot of Mumsnetters seem to have been impressed by Kip McGrath as a less mindnumbingly repetitive alternative to Kumon.

I think you're quite right not to move him again. He's happy and is doing well in English and Science; perhaps the way Maths is being taught isn't working for him but that's something you can fix outside school with tutoring.

can'tcarryon - you are right, and not even the selective ones.
DS in year 6 is working through the year 8 curriculuum. And he is a normal no-genius-late-summer-born-boy.

That, said it is the top set.
Middle sets are working at year 7.

However you make a fair point that it must all even out when they start their gcses. Though I wouldn't use that argument for DS not to accelerate his maths now as he seems perfectly at ease at this level.

Oh dear, the OP is now going to be panicked again! OP, really don't worry about this 'working ahead of state school children' stuff. It makes little difference in the end.

When I was at Cambridge University there were any privately educated children who had done tones of homework during their primary years but the academic content of a primary education pales into insignificance when confronted with trying to solve the buckling problems of thin walled shells using integration with imaginary numbers!

ProfLayton has some good points.

FWIW DS is in Y3 at a private school and is apparently one of very few in his year group not struggling with times tables.

IIWY I would try CDs, online games, whatever else until you find the right awy to make it "click" for your DS - all children learn in different ways.

Yes that's the point Builde - it doesn't really matter at what level your DC works at at primary level if it all levels out at age 16. The important thing is that he is happy, learning and not bored.

"Leave him, save money, get a tutor in once a week and move him to a private school at secondary"

entirely agree with redwhiteandblue.

Oh builde - you are so very clever, I really must be wrong. I shall tell DS to stop his Maths immediately.

litchick, was that called for?

FWIW MamiSandra

you have responded to the point about stereotyping the two types of schools and have apologised for any offence - which is very nice of you but completely misses the point I was trying to make

I don't care in the slightest what your opinion is of 'prep school parents' or 'state school types' and I am not offended at all - not least because I have twop children in Private schools and one child in a State school.

The point I was trying to make was that by seeing schools through a narrow prism based upon stereotypes and assumptions, you are losing focus upon what matters.
It doesn't actually matter whether or not you get on with the parents, nor whether you worry that State schools may be less rigorous.

The main things is whether your child is settled and happy and whether moving will help that or not.

I have had my children at loads of different schools and I think parents, very broadly, are just parents. You will loath a few, love a few and the rest you will just see at school events.

So, not offended. Just tryingto help you rule out what you should be considering in this situation and what actually doesn't matter even though you are fretting about it.

I wish I were good at that sort of tier of maths. I was good up to GSCE and then never made that leap onto the more abstract stuff at A level.
Anyway back to OP, I think this private school kids are way ahead of state ones is misrepresented. I suspect that the average kid in private school is ahead of the average kid in state school, but this may well have a lot to do with intakes. My ds is by no means top of the class in his state school but apparently (acc to those stupid reading bands) has a reading age of 3 years ahead of his real age. And so do all his friends, ie about a third of the class.

I also have 4 children, (5 and under) and have just recently moved my DD's schools so maybe can offer you an opinion that you might find useful! (although you've had lots of great opinions and suggestions so far already!).

My DD's school move was from a state school to a state school but the difference that it has made has been pretty huge.

My DD had developed a loathing of learning and was completely stuck on everything - numbers, letters, she was even writing all the letters the other way round. I would say she had completely regressed at her previous school. Now I know my DD is very bright and speaking to other parents at her previous school who commented on their children having regressed too, I tried to remedy the situation by sitting down with her every night. But it didn't work. She point blank refused to do anything. Although most people said to leave as they are still young, I knew in my heart that there as something wrong at school. She used to come home with loads of scribbles, when I asked her what she'd done she'd say "nothing" etc

To cut a long story short, since she moved my DD has come on leaps and bounds. She loves school, she demands to do her homework and she has made massive progress in all areas, including painting and sport. I really do think that a good school is one where the love of learning is promoted, even at a very early age, and that is not a state/private matter but what school suits your child.....hope this gave you some food for thought xx

I thought litchick was serious in her comment (thank you litchick!)...but I am trying to make a serious point.

There is a limit to what a brain can do at a certain age (mine ran out about the third year of university) and primary aged children should just enjoy learning.

And I hate hearing the usual stuff about 'private school' children working ahead of state school children when I see little evidence of it in our local state and private schools. (or the schools I attended or may parents taught in)It just makes anxious state school parents even more anxious.

State schools don't go along with the average ability; they 'set' or 'group' even at primary level. My dds don't work at the average level of the class; they work at their level.

And I am just keen that children should be happy because there are some very unhappy high achieving teenagers out there.

Remember that those state schools which are selective tend to match most private schools very well (ie. grammar schools).

The main reason why prep schools often have children working above the level of state schools is because they select, and sometimes if children are not keeping up, they are asked to leave .

I am not going discount the value of small class sizes. Of course they help, but successful grammar schools do well with classes of 30.

I think you have got very sensible advice already. Just wanted to point out something: do not obsessed about the maths. One thing I do not understand is why we try to put so much effort on our weaknesses. If your son has a serious problem with maths, try to support him by all means. Follow his progress, see what the minimum should be and target it.

However, you and he may accept that, at least, at this point in life this is not his best point and he should spend as little time possible on something he is not good at or he is not enjoying. Trying once and again the same thing just to remind yourself how you are not great at it, is a really frustrating exercise.

So perhaps the alternative thought is more productive. Focusing on things you are good at make you feel good.

In other words: Relax and pay more attention perhaps on the positive side.

I haven't read all the thread but I feel your fear/guilt/worry over your son. My ds is almost 18 now and despite throwing £100k+ at his education he has no work ethic! i really believed the schools would force the best out of ds but he just exhausted all their disciplinary measures and droves us all mad'
as it doesn't sounds as though you have money to burn i'd advise keeping your ds at village state school and spending some of the money saved on activities/sports/hobbies/trips etc and spend more regular 1:1 time with him if you can

i would leave him where he is.

i would spend money on getting a report from an educational psychologist. this will give you a clear picture of his ability and identify accurately any learning difficulties.

you can then decide what is best for him. it may well be staying put and getting him some extra help and support.

Just to add, the Head of a local V. selective private boys school has said he prefers children from one State primary over those from all the prep schools. The reasons are: those children have had a broader education, and certainly compared to one Prep they haven't been "hot housed". The boys from that Prep have in the past often done very well at the entrance exam only to either struggle at GCSE or to stop working.

I would also say, I am worrying today as I showed a class yesterday 3 minutes of House, and am slightly worried they will go home saying we watched House today. Some parents might think I had shown the whole thing, instead of a tiny, censored slip.

If he is struggling with maths, do try to make it concrete for him. Play games with smarties or lego, do lots of grouping things into 3's or whatever, and then counting. Make sure he knows the multiplication fact that are the same in other tables. Don't expect him to be able to recite them, just use them. The more practice the better.
I could not do times tables, I learnt my own routes to work them out, and I got a very good grade at Maths A'level.
So don't panic yet! (Oh also don't necessarily believe that other parents kids can do all that their parents say they can do.)

Good luck, from another parent who frequently wonders if she is doing the right thing!