Private or state - I am never happy and feel so lost

[MamiSandra]

Hi

I am really worried we are making a complete dog's dinner of our oldest son's education.

He is now in Year 3 at our local state primary.

Before he started school, we always assumed he would be going to private school. At the time we could afford it and simply didn't trust the state system to be up for it.

We visited the local state school anyhow and were of course not very surprised at the much less impressive facilities compared to the prep school.

We live in a beautiful village and literally at the last minute, it occurred to us that maybe it would be nice if our son was part of the local community. The children at the prep school all lived miles away. Then there was also the concern about possible incompatibility with snobby parents (I am sorry, but I am just not like that, though I know not all of them are).

In the end, we decided to give the state school a shot. However, half-way through the Reception year it became clear that he was not progressing at all. He was simply never read with at school or given any attention. His confidence was going downhill all the time. I was pregnant at the time and had builders in. On reflection, he didn't get enough support from us during this time. We of course immediately blamed the state school. We branded ourselves stupid for ever assuming that a state school could be good enough, took him about 6 weeks before the end of Reception and put him into the prep school.

Luckily, he settled really well and we were happy for the moment.

As time went on through Year 1 and Year 2 at the prep school, I grew more and more disillusioned. I could not get on with the other parents (and I am not difficult, but I simply do not get off on labels, fast cars and shopping), the school turned out to be a right Piccadilly circus (our son lost three friends within a few months due to their leaving and there was a constant stream of new starters) and I noticed that his peers at the state primary appeared much happier and progressing well. And then of course there was the money. We had four children in total - a big expense long term, though the other three weren't at school yet.

When it was time for our twins to start school, we did the unthinkable and chose the state school. Then our oldest asked if he couldn't go back to the state school, too. Suddenly, it call seemed to make sense. That we didn't give it enough time in Reception, that he hadn't been supported by us, that we panicked, that we are wasting our money paying for private school when there was a good village state school on our doorstep etc. etc.

So our oldest moved back into the primary half way through Year 2 (and was received with a round of applause from his old mates - went back into the same class) and our twins started Reception.

The twins are doing really great. They are completely different characters to our oldests. Very intelligent and very keen to learn. Our oldest is intelligent, but not so keen to learn - and this is where my dilemma lies now.

He is falling behind in Year 3. I am not at all sure that every day is fully productively spent. I have visions of the children watching lots of TV and just generally drifting. I can see that he is struggling with Maths, though his English is very good. I have asked his teacher and she just brushes my concerns aside, saying all is well. Apparently, other parents at the school have heard those sort of reassurances about their children, only to then be told in Year 6 that there is a big problem.

Now I feel it was a mistake to take him out of the prep school. They would have ironed out any learning difficulties. Now I feel on my own. Should I pay for a private tutor? How can I feel so terribly insecure about the whole thing? I just cannot work out what was/is the best thing to do? I feel I would not be happy in the prep school (where the school day from Year 3 ends at 4.30 pm plus homework, so zero home life, friends, time to go to the park after school etc.). What is childhood all about? Our son is happy at his present school, but is this all at the cost of his education?

Please help me sort my head out.

Thanks for reading my ramble.

Sandra

well leave him where he is for the rest of his primary ed. Another move would, I think be disastrous.

Maybe if you feel he needs extra help which you cannot give him then maybe the best option is a spot of gentle tutoring?

Only you can decide but he is very very young. Why worry - he is happy and enjoying school. I dont agree that you are keeping him at the local school at the cost of his education - he will be getting an education but maybe not exactly that he would have got in the private school. You can easily support him at home with extra work, or use a tutor once a week. Many of us do it.

At primary school they are very very young and as long as education is fun and they get a love of learning, surely it can all come together at high school when hard work and results matter.

Having fun and great friends that live near you cannot be underestimated.

riiiiiight..... ummm your son is happy, you want him to enjoy his childhood - I think you have answered your own questions! What does ofsted say about the state school? If you have concerns and don't feel his teacher is listening make an appointment and talk to the head. How do you know he is falling behind? Who are you comparing him with? It sounds like maybe you have high expectations? Kids learn at different speeds and actually forcing him to learn at a pace that doesn't come naturally to him will just damage self esteem and damage motivation - IMO!

Please allow for the fact that your eldest son just might not be exceptionally academic, and will never actually excel regardless of where you place him. And prep schools do not 'iron out' learning difficulties - they simply force the children to work harder, as demonstrated by their 7.5 hour day. you said yourself that it's like Piccadilly circus there.

It cannot be a bad school, your other children are thriving. You have moved him twice in three years, you have had twins, you've been renovating your house - without being deliberately harsh, how much of your attention has he really been getting? It's the home that makes a child, not a school, and if he's not interested in learning anyway, why would a pressured academic environment be suitable?

I don't think it helped that you seem to have a stereotypical ofthe whole state vs private thing

I have had my children in about five different prep schools between them.
There are arents I get on with better than other but none are snobby and into 'labels fast cars and shopping'

I think your vision of state school as the children watching tv and drifting is equally wide of the mark..

stop looking at this through a prism of charicatures from god knows where.

My son is at school til 4.00 and loves it, does his prep but has time for friends plus loads of activities at school.

Being at state school does not mean your child will slide - and private education does not 'iron our learning difficulties'

Take your silly prejudices aside and look at your children interms of what they need most and which school will provide it.

Being happy and supported in their enviroemnt is pretty important in that list. And lots of moves are unsettling and confusing

From what you have said I would imagine you would be best leaving him where he is.
But the schools are not the Beano brought to life and you might want to shake that off, not least in case he does need to move again

As the teacher has not been very communicative, how do you know that he is falling behind? How did your son fare in his SATs? People get too angsty about SATs results but they do at least tell you something about your child's progress.

I very much doubt that in Y3 they are spending the day watching TV. I do think, though, that quite a lot of children find the transition from KS1 to KS2 difficult and boys in Y3 especially do sometimes find it hard to knuckle down in the way that teachers expect.

If you're really fretting - and it does sound as if you are getting over-wrought about this - how about making an appointment with a tutor who can give you an initial assessment of whether your son has real difficulties that need additional support? I really don't think that yo-yoing between schools can be the answer.

Pag has hit the nail on the head. Private school is not Lord Snooty and His Friends. State school is not the Bash Street Kids. (At least, not always).

"I am not at all sure that every day is fully productively spent."

I am 47 and have spent my life in academe, but even I could not cope with a life in which every day is fully productively spent: I think my brain would probably explode.

"Private or state - I am never happy and feel so lost"

Is this thread about you or your DC?
Leave him where he is and stop messing him around.

Your son is happy at the village school. That's your answer.

Education isn't just about being good at maths and literacy, and it's not just about school either. I'm not surprised he's struggling with at least one subject; he's a 7/8-year-old child who's on his third school (technically), will have been taught using different methods, with different resources and is in the midst of renegotiating friendships whilst trying to get to grips with a different way of doing things. He may be a child for whom maths isn't a strong point but if he's enjoying school and is happy there I think that's what matters.

If he is actually struggling with maths perhaps he'd like some 1:1 time with you to work on maths? Perhaps he'd like some 1:1 time with you anyway? Could you arrange some childcare for the younger children so you and he can enjoy one another's company and rebuild your relationship? Tutoring... if that's something he's interested in then it might be worth considering in a few months but only if he's keen and only once you've made time for him to spend some 'protected' time with you.

As I said before, your son is happy at the village school. That's your answer.

As others have said, leave him at the state school. If you're that worried then use a fraction of the money you're saving on fees to pay for a tutor - or perhaps better still for some childcare/an activity for your other dcs so you can spend time with your ds working 1-to-1.

FWIW i wouldn't bother with the tutor but I'd try and make some time for him.

I'd leave him where he is as well if he's happy. That's more important than anything. I know exactly how you feel though - the constant asking of yourself are you doing the right thing. I've come to the conclusion the education doesn't matter that much if you child is happy. He's only year 3. If you can get the happy bit right the rest doesn't matter - take it from a mother whose son is currently unhappy at school and has refused to go for 2 weeks. I'd give anything for him to just enjoy it right now. Try not to get too anxious. Nothing is set in stone. With supportive parents he can reach his full potential if you just relax and enjoy his childhood.

btw how do you know your ds is intelligent? Sometimes middle class children don't do amazingly well at school because they're just not that academic, but we all have these assumptions that our children must be well above average and when they're not, we blame the school.
I think you're very lucky to live in a beautiful village with a local school where everybody cheers when you return despite knowing that you didn't think it was good enough.

How on Earth did the fact, that you didn't get along with the other parents at private school, come into equation at all???? It's not you who's going to school; it's your son.
The quality of his education is the utmost important issue here and if he's not doing well at the state school, put him back to the private and leave him there, even if you get another panic attack.

Leave him, save money, get a tutor in once a week and move him to a private school at secondary

It seems that every time your ds does not live up to your high expectations you have a knee jerk reaction and blame the school. This is a bit of a dangerous habit. No child can be given the absolutely perfect environment and support at absolutely every stage of his life. What matters in life is not how perfect things are but how well you deal with imperfection.

I would consider a couple of other possibilities:

Your son may simply be a slow developer. Some children are, especially boys. In that case, he will need to be given time to develop in whichever system he is.

Your son may simply not be of a very academic bent. My ds is not, though the rest of the family is: I have just had to learn to live with the fact that he is not us.

Your son may feel stressed by your high expectations and underperform for that reason (I always suspected that was happening to my eldest brother; he was also in the situation of being outperformed by his younger siblings).

Your son may be perfectly capable but simply not working hard enough. Sooner or later that is going to be his responsibility.

My MIL was immensely proud at having managed to get dh to get a scholarship for high-performing independent school. Dh clearly had a happy time there, with excellent teachers, and still speaks of it with affection. But he didn't do the work, so failed his A-levels. You can lead a horse to water and all that...

You are trying to over optimise - the problem with us middle classes. That leads to a great deal of unhappiness. I'm guilty of this too.

Do you have anything else in your life other than the kids, it seems that you expected alot from the other parents at the private school and to provide you with a life.

Leave him where he is and spend some extra time doing maths. if you want to spend money enrol him on a local Kumon but really I get the impression you feel as if it is your fault rightly or wrongly for not giving him the time you feel you should have.

Alternatively wait another year and if your input isn't producing the results you want and do bear in mind that every child's potential is different, hire a tutor.

If it were me, I would give him his special me and mum time where we worked together on the things he has found tricky that week at school and then when it comes to secondary, look very very carefully for the right sort of place. You may well find a small independent is the answer.

Flashy facilities does not make a good school. Ds1 and 3 are at a small secondary which is part of the Cognita group. Their philosophy is no frills but the best quality. The fees are spent on providing the very best teachers and instilling an environment where the C/D kids are every bit as valued as the A* ones. personally I don't care that my kids don't have a state of the art theatre and floodlit sports pitches. The teachers care and go the extra mile. Grades count but so too does the child's well-being. A happy child will fulfil his/her own potential whatever that may be.

we get more labels at our local state, than at the local prep schools.

just leave him where he is and calm down.

what on earth will you be like when it comes to secondary schools or universities?

I really wouldn't move him again, it would be an awful lot to cope with. Some children don't learn at a steady pace, they have more peaks and troughs and you'll get some years where they get on much better than others. Year 3 was when my DD had s little extra help with maths which gave her more confidence.

Oh i know that feeling... I sympathise with you. You're only trying to get it right for your children, and you've been very honest on here.

I think it's telling that your son asked to go back to school with his siblings. I think it's great that you listened to him and did this - my dh would have loved parents like you - he still feels distanced from his brother and sister because they were at such different schools (although IMO it's never quite that simple).

Now you know he is at a school where he is happy. But I sympathise very much about the teacher being dismissive, while you feel he's not engaged.

I think the first thing to do is volunteer as a class helper, if you possibly can - on weekend PTA stuff if you are working, but best of all helping with actual classes or reading of some sort. Get an actual picture of what's going on - if you're like me you will find some of it reassuring, some less so, but at least it will be more real in your mind. Find out the detail of what they are doing in Maths. Read his Maths book every week. Then I would say just work on it at home, rather than pay a tutor. There are some great Maths books out there - we have tried the Galt ones which were fine - I've heard the Carol Vorderman Times Tables books/CDs recommended if that's a weak area. Also, of course, if he's good at other things, that's great, and you need to give him opportunities to show you how well he can do in those too (I'm sure you do this). I've just found out that Puffin Post has reappeared on the web, maybe he would like that if he's a reader?

I wouldn't move him again at primary, but clearly not all private schools and state schools are the same, so there's time to visit a wider range of schools before he moves up (well, maybe not, with 3 younger children!)

Thank you all for your replies.

I will definitely not move him again. He is happy where he is. But I must learn to relax and get my head straight. I think I am a perfectionist by nature and we all try to do the best for our children and in the process often go in there "like a bull in the china shop" (or at least that's what I did by moving him immediately instead of trying to find out what's normal for boys of that age). My post on his board was merely to try and understand (with your help) what is going on in my head - and some of you have greatly helped me there.

Some of you have asked how I know that he is falling behind. I know this because he still struggles with every single times table even though they are by now expected to know the 2, 3, 4, 5 and 10 and have just started working on the 6 and 7. He also struggles to do things like 9 divided by 3 or double 6. Recently, he was moved down a group at school (they stream them in maths).

I am not terribly academic. I come from a working class background and I have no problem with my children not becoming high-flyers. But I do want them to fulfil their potential. My son is very good at English and Science, so I don't think it's fair to assume that he is not academic generally.

When I speak of "every day productively spent", then this does not mean they should have their noses down for hours on end. Playing, talking, running around are all part of the school day, too.

I agree with redwhiteandblue to leave him where he is and use tutoring if necessary. I am also really grateful for frogetyfrog's kind comments. And thanks also to girliefriend and PollyParanoia.

But the most meaningful reply was from annielouise - how wisely said - thank you.

I am not the sort of parent who does not spend time with her children. I spend every afternoon 15 mins with each child on their homework or reading. Then I join in their playing or they help me with cooking. All our children really love each other's company, too, and this is something they would miss out on if they were at school any longer every day. My oldest son enjoys 20 mins of one to one time with me every night after the younger ones have gone to bed. So I really don't think this is a case of a damaged relationship between me and my children.

I can see why my post must have seemed like it was oozing with stereotyping and I apologise if any offence was taken. But the parents at the prep school were very snobby. Having said that, I do still have three very good friends from there who were not like that. And as for the state schools, well, one always reads how state schools are well behind prep schools - why is this then? Is it because state school teachers are forced through so much red tape, have too many children in their class and not enough support that there simply isn't the chance to bring the best out in everyone?