Scared by my school snob friend!

[Elllie]

We have been living abroad as part of a 4yr work placement, and we are choosing (yes, choosing!) to come back to the UK as we miss friends and family. I have two DC. I was discussing that I had seen a nice Surrey town we would like to settle in, and my friend, who appears to have become the biggest school snob in the world, has said that we are nuts for not choosing the school first, and then the location. As she is self employed, she has managed to hide a lot of her income and get 100% bursaries for her children at top schools - she was desperate for them to be sent to boarding schools!
I want my DC (currently 3 and 1) to do well, but quite frankly, we earn far too much to be considered for a bursary, and not enough to pay school fees for two DC without serious sacrifice.
SHe is making me feel that as her DCs are now off to the best schools in UK that I will be harming my DCs by not putting their schools first in out list of requirements when moving back. We are comfortably well off, but I am not so keen to reduce our lifestyle to the point that we all struggle to live a decent lifestyle so our DCs can go to private school. I have always presumed that if a child is bright, they will succeed whatever.
I would love to hear opinions, as I am not so familiar with the school system here:

1. Is the school situation so bad that we must choose to live in the catchment area of a good school rather than live where we like? 2)Is state education really so bad here? My DH went to a state school and still studied at Oxford
2. SHould we be taking the view that we should sacrifice an awful lot just to get our DCs into prep and private schools. I realise there is a lot here, but I would love some opinions. Thanks!

Yes you should choose to be in the catchment area of a decent state school so that you don't have to worry about private schools and affordability.

1. I have no idea but most people do consider whether the local schools are good or bad before buying a house.

2. Of course state education isn't that bad. It depends, of course, on the school but most aren't too bad at all.

3. Well, it depends on whether you think it is worth it.

2 issues:
Your friend: she sounds as if she has become consumed t the point of obsession. Some people feel the need to justify thier own decision to themselves by running down other (completely normal!) points of view. Take no notice of her! Also, school-panic is very contagious!
State secondaries: of course there are many very good state secondaries. However, it probably is as well to check that you would be within the catchemnt of one that is fine, rather than accidentally find yourselves stuck between two that are in special measures, or something. A quick check of the Ofsted reports and look at the league table results online will tell you a little, but not the detail behind the stats. Many schools take in an equal number of children across each of 5 ability bands, so the stats are very much an average - many people forget that within that average ther will be man individulas doing v well indeed. You sound as if you have a calm and sensible outlook, so ignore your friend and find a nice place to loive where you will be confident of the school.

You really ought to stop being scared.

Research some areas you like the look of and then look at the schools.

Absolutely no point having a great school if you hate where you live.

Well, I suppose I am struggling to see whether it is 'worth it' because in our situation, we were both students at state schools, and also studied at our first choice of university (Oxford and Newcastle). So our personal view is that had we been sent off to a boarding school/ private school, the outcome of our working lives wouldn't have been different, only our parents much much poorer!
Perhaps this scenario is not possible today.

Tell us the nice surrey town and I am sure we can give you some ideas of the school situation. I am in Guildford.

I would say that it is worth considering the state of local schools near any house you choose as it will become an issue later on regardless of what you think now! Blu is very correct in saying that school panic is very contagious. I moved to my current house ages before I even had kids although I did have a check to see that there were local primaries nearby. When school time came, I found out to my shock that the local primary was Catholic and local secondary comprehensive is C of E and to stand any real chance of getting in, we had to be regular church goers. As the complete opposite, panic did set in! My children are settled into a school now and we are very happy with our choice but they ended up going to private schools which had never ever been my intention. With hindsight I would have done a bit more research and saved myself a lot of stress and money!

Thanks Blu - I think she is obsessed. But it also hurts, as she seems to be implying that 'if we really loved our children', sending them to private school is the answer. That is fine if one can be in receipt of a bursary - the only way her children could study at those schools. I guess that makes her a type of inverse snob.
I do believe education is important, but I believe that how hard the child works at their education is important too.

The area we like is the Guildford, Godalming and Farnham area.
We did, incedently, live in Richmond before that, so you think I would know more about the school situation - but we didn't have children at that point, and have since been in the US system.

Panic is contagious, but since you are the position of choosing where to settle you have a luxury denied to most of us! There will be nice areas with a bad school(I live in one of those!) and nice areas with a good school - why not choose to be in the latter?
Regarding your DH getting inot Oxbridge, yes, but things were different then . My old state school used to have half the 6ht form going to university, in the days when there were fewer universities and far fewer students. Today it the second worst in the country for value-added . So the DC will not be going there.

there are plenty of nice schools, both state and private in and around Guildford - lots!
I am in the area. My two are in private schools, mostly because I want single sex education but the state schools I looked at were great - primary level has several very very good opions and the secondary options including George Abbot are very good too.

Your friend is being a twerp - and I say that having looked at both State and Private locally

I think you should make sure you don't move back anywhere very close to your friend, she sounds hideous.

Of course it is possible to have excellent outcomes from state schools. Ignore your friend on that.

But I do think it is wise to take account of the local schools when you move. In some areas the decent schools are heavily oversubscribed. In some areas all the schools are oversubscribed! So worth seeing if you can move near to decent school to take that worry away IMO. Obviously if the place you want to live has decent schools that are not oversubscribed then you need not worry. But I do think you should look into it as a part of your research when you are deciding where to look, yes.

Most logical conclusion is to buy where the good schools are. A much cheaper option than funding fees for the next 16 years! Fees will only go up, and if you calculate how much fees for prep/snr school are over that period, and mortgages, holidays etc there is no competition. I went to independent school, DH state and he has an excellent career. Intelligent kids with supportive families will achieve wherever they go.

Ignore her. She is loopy.

She has commited fraud and deprived others of places at these schools. Hardly a fantastic example.

I expect she exerts a lot of pressure on her children, which IME is very dangerous and causes more harm than good. Loving, sensible parents who "parent" not dictate are IMHO much more likely to have happy children.

I can't tell you how much better I feel having read all of these replies!!! Thanks so much for taking the time to add your opinions and advice - I really need them. I already feel as though I have made a controversial decision by choosing to return to the UK over the USA. Over here, the state schools are excellent, and no stress about places either. LIfe is cheaper, and we have the huge house of our dreams. But, quite frankly, there is nothing here to do! We are bored rigid, and we are the sort of people who make friends easily and like to be out and about. I know a lot of friends think we're crazy - but I really do miss the history, culture, variety and eccentricity of the UK. We both had such excellent childhoods in the UK that we want our children to have the same. I don't even care about the bad weather

my advice would be to try and live in the catchment are of george abbot school in guildford. nice place and good schools - sorry got baby on lap so poor typing...

JustAnotherManicMummy - You really are on target, and that is exactly how I feel. She is one of those close long term friends who I probably should ignore, but we have known each other for so long, I feel it would be like ignoring a sister. I am also god mother to one of her daughters - and I love the girls to pieces. She is very harsh on them, and does really push them too far. In this case it succeeded in getting them a fantastic education for free, and actually in some regards, I think the fact they will be going off to board will help her daughters in the long run.
I just hope that they will not suffer at these top schools, when they are alongside very wealthy peers to whom they will never hope to keep up with in regards to holidays, homes, clothes, lifestyles etc. I hope they will not be bullied or left out.

My advice would be Busbridge in Godalming or near the downs in Guildford. Don't know Farnham.

All of the central primaries are good - Pewley Down, St Nicks, Merrow, Burpham, Sandfield. Slightly more problematic with Secondary but George Abbott is probably top of the league tables (though big 2000+ students), but County and St Peters are on the ascendancy.

Word of advice: check out catchment areas "properly"....we moved to a place with two fab primaries....we were 470 metres away from 1st, 800 metres from second.....didn't get into either, and these primaries were big (around 900 pupils)......! ok, its central London but things have got silly. Don't trust the estate agents to be fully open ...check with schools directly first

well, if it is any comfort. My DS1 goes to a 'top school'. His friends are all evry nice to each other and the boys who he/I happen to know are either scholarship boys or on bursaries are treated exactly the same as everyone else. He has mates who are dressed in designer stuff and who have posh holidays and friends who are endlessly scruffy and don't go away at all.

Try not to let the fact that she is a snob make you think for a moment that the parents will be snobs or that their children will be bullies. That would then make you in danger of making just as awful assumptions about private school kids as she is about state schools

It would be annoying to buy a house and then find later that it was in the catchment area of a school that wasn't to your liking - but them you could buy a house that is in a catchment area with a school you think would suit your c and then they move the boundary...

I am fortunate to live in an area where all the schools around I would be happy to send my dd2 - but at 1 and 3 I am not sure I would be confednet to pick her a school for 7 years time for secondary.

I didn't mean ignore her permanently - just ignore her silly ideas (like I do with my mother family)

Sounds like boarding school could be best place for them if she is a horribly pushy parent.

As long as the DC are happy that's all that matter.

Ok, I'm not from the home counties but I would certainly agree with whoever it was who said to check out catchment areas carefully (with the local authority, my friend bought a house opposite a lovely secondary school only to find it wasn't in the catchment area and on considering a house move found that only feeder school children counted in real terms). We have excellent schools near us but the most bizarre catchment areas in the world, designed to keep out the socially less desirable....

State education isn't bad but there are some bad state schools and while you have the choice of where to live it would be prudent to avoid them

I would not assume the parents are snobs, nor that the children will be bullies! I just want my god daughters to be happy. In a perfect world, income and lifestlye of your family doesn't matter, but in the teenage word, IMHO I think it can. It shouldn't, and it doesn't make or break friendships, but it is always there. I remember my first boyfriend at university had studied at Glenalmond, and meeting his parents for the first time. His mothers face drpped when she found out that actually, I did not attend a private school - and worst of all - attended a catholic school! Very nice dear, but not 'our sort' - I think was the response. Until, of course, she found out that our family was titled (veritable catnip to such people, and something I prefer not to make known because of 'assumptions') but our parents had very liberal views on education. As do I! It does go on. I just hope in their case it doesn't.