I'm beginning to think that job sharing for teachers doesn't work very well in primary school

[flashharriet]

I have 3 children and each of them have had years with job sharing teachers and years with just one class teacher. Having read many education threads on MN over the years, I know how hard it is for teachers with young children to juggle the needs of their own children with the needs of the children they teach and so a lot will opt for part time. But having just looked back at my children's time in primary school to date, I've realised that without exception, their "duffest" years have been those years when they've been taught by job sharers.

I'm now wondering whether part-timers would be better suited to secondary schools where pupils are used to moving around and having a number of different teachers anyway; certainly I had two different teachers each year for English, for example, and it didn't present any problems AFAI can remember. Communication is much harder with job-sharing teachers and IME consistency between job sharers seems to be an issue too.

I'd love it if we could have a good discussion about this and have therefore deliberately not posted in AIBU! But I'd be interested whether others have found this too (posting this thread was prompted by reading Greeny's current thread about trying to deal with two job-sharing teachers) or whether we've just been very unlucky.

flashharriet there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with you raising the issue, just the same as if you had a crap teacher on his/her own who you had doubts about.

But at the same time, its a very sweeping statement to make based only on personal experience - I was pleased to hear so many positive experiences of job share, and I think you're right in seeing that the communication has been an issue at your school, rather than the set up itself.

I personally think my GP is a twat for example, but would never start a post saying I'm starting to think that all GPs are rubbish.

You were lucky you were able to give up, financially I mean - that element of choice makes all the difference.

I retrained as a mature student to become a teacher, and part of my reason for doing this was because I knew I could go PT when/if I had kids. Obviously I was lucky being able to do that though!

Have no problem at all with it being raised and debated. But some comments, eg primary teachers swapping to secondary, show a lack of knowledge. Someone made a good comparison to a doctor and a dentist - totally different jobs!!

In profressions where the workforce is predominately female - primary teachers, GPs, nurses etc - job shares have to be made to work or we stand to lose huge numbers of talented people. And it seems, from the posts on here at least, that they can work, not just for the employee but for the pupils too. As in any profession, there are good employees and not so good employees, there are great employers and bad employers. When the combination is wrong it doesn't work. There are full time duffers too. Whether they are part time or not or have children or not is pretty irrelevant. A good employee is a good employee and will be responsible and mature enough to make sure a job share works. A not so good employee won't - but then they won't be great full time either. Sadly in a school, that means the pupils miss out. Not sure that getting rid of job shares is the answer. Trying to find the best possible teachers for the job is the answer - and many of those best candidates will be mothers with young children. So it has to be made to work.

I do think harriet makes point, us teachers do like to think that we have it harder than anyone else, more is expected of us etc.. but in reality it is not that different to many other jobs.

For me the summer holiday pay issue is one of fairness to the cover teacher. They have worked on contract for perhaps close to a year and then they lose their income in July with no means of getting work in their profession until September.
I agreed 3 weeks pay each over the holiday period with my maternity cover.

Nobody has picked up on one key benefit of job shares which I mentioned earlier. We don't have to use supply if one of us can't work. If we are training, ill or we have ill children we cover each other. Our children are NEVER faced with a stranger in the morning.

I had no idea that primary teachers were so ANGRY - they all seem so beatific IRL

This isn't a thread about attacking teachers. It's a discursive thread about things that might be less than ideal, and how they might be done better. I think pretty much all the posters on here want the same thing - for flexible working to work well for clients [pupils/parents], employers and employees.

Surely it's better to discuss these things than to pretend there are no problems at all?

I wouldn't mind my dts being taught by a job share arrangement, if only it was that simple!

But my dts (5yo) are in a mixed year group yr1/2

• are taught by 2 teachers, 1 headmistress and 3 TA's a total of 6 different people in 1 week.

I can't get my head round this 'consistency'??????????? eh none!!!!

But... the dts seem fine atm - is it just the parents that are fussing or are we right to be concerned before it gets out of hand?

Morosky, I don't think that our job is harder - it is a wonderful priveledge to teach children for a living. However, I do get annoyed by a significant number of mumsnetters who seem to think that we are all lazy, uncaring and unreasonable.

policywonk - Do the parents get a say though, think not (well not in our case) we feel we are to put up and shut up!

Morosky I would go further and say it is easier/better than many other jobs! I worked in "industry" before retraining - teaching can be a walk in the park in comparison - and obviously there are the holidays!! It's a different type of work altogether, which I think is hard to understand unless you have done the job.

caz10, yes it was a sweeping statement on the basis that my children are all in the same school but given that a fair few posters on this thread have had bad experiences, I think it's a debate worth having. Just as some schools are commended for their early years provision or outdoor learning or whatever, I think there's some scope for schools who do job sharing well to share (hah!) their expertise with other schools. And yes, I didn't realise that primary and secondary were quite such different beasts so I apologise for that.

glinda - each and every one of our teachers/Ta's are fab and kids love all of them. But when do we start to worry, when its too late?

Glinda/policywonk - that is exactly why I am feeling a bit riled by this - teachers seem to get a hard time on here ALL of the time!
Of course there are problems, maybe its just that no-one complains when their dentist/GP/accountant is PT...

zipadisoozi - there should be plenty of consistency - if planning and communication is good.

glinda surely not many people have childcare that is so flexible

(although maybe changing now everyone is loosing their jobs!)

Well can I just say :

My made-up name is policywonk and I think teachers are fucking fab.

Zipadi - you need to get on to your governors if you think you're being ignored; get a few parents together, get your concerns down on paper and send a copy to each governor, requesting a meeting to discuss the issue.

Sometimes I think that children have to be a little too adaptable these days tbh.

I will say that as a parent, I do find it a PITA to get to speak to the right person sometimes but I can live with that. What concerns me is the lack of "spark" from my children in some years and unfortunately, it's those years where they've had job sharers or teachers going off on maternity leave. I don't begrudge anyone going for flexible working if they can, but I've learnt from this thread that it all needs to be managed very carefully for it to work. That's not happening in our school and that makes me sad for all the children.

I agree, caz, I think I have been spoilt in teaching and actually could not hack it in a "proper" job. After 6 weeks I need a holiday and I know that we have things to do in the holidays but it is not like being at work.

Tomorrow I have top set year 10, ( lovely lovely lovely and we are acting out creation stories with daft props before having a debate) Bottom set year 10, lots of nurture and patience needed but very doable. I then have some rather lovely year 7s and we are designing settlements, bit of chat from me and then they do some drawing. A duty which involves me chatting to kids and drinking tea. I then hve my year 13s doing a times essay, I will sit and watch while flicking through philosophy journals. I then have some year 11s doing some creative work on religious symbols while we eat the cupcakes I am about to decorate. I then have a detention and a display to put up and can be out the door for 5. Hardly a day of hard graft!

I think it is the intensity people don't get tbh.

I have to say that apart from the odd moan on here I never get anything but respect for my job. Often the moans on here are about an individual who is worth moaning about, like the blazers yesterday. We all just need to chill little bit.

sounds very dramatic zipadisoozi! There is no reason why that set-up should be problematic! But as the lovely, charming, intelligent policywonk said (), you must raise whatever concerns you have. Hopefully the school will be able to reassure you.

This thread has left me agog.
As a Yr1/2 part time teacher, who works many hours over and above my share of the 1265 hours of directed time we're actually paid for, I can't believe people are suggesting I give up a career I love just because I have my own children.
I work bloody hard to provide the highest level of care to my class, to present them with interesting and appropriate materials and experiences, to nurture and help them develop, to be a friendly face, a welcoming presence and an educational guide.
To then suggest that, actually, because I dare to produce offspring of my own, who I might like to spend some time with too, I should go and teach in secondary education (a completely different ballgame!) or just not bother working at all (not particularly wise in this economic climate) is ridiculous and quite offensive. As a previous poster states, no other profession would reasonably expect you to put customers before your own family.
I wonder if some parents fully appreciate the pressures a teacher is under?
The head is pushing for results because County are breathing down his/her neck, new schemes are introduced by the Govt at the rate of about one a week, which teachers have to spend their own time reading and planning to implement, the EAL child in your class has some outside agency helpingn them, but you have to regularly do extra assessements, the SENCO wants X Y &Z on your 6 children with IEP's (by Tuesday please), little Johnny has lost his sweater again and Mum is demanding you turn the school upside down looking for it, Sarah's Dad is livid that Rebecca broke one of Sarah's pencils and is blaming you for it.
Then you spend an hour and a half planning for tomorrow, leave a detailed schedule of everything you've covered for your job-share, go home via the childminder, cook, clean, kids bedtime, more hours on planning or assessment, maybe spend a few minutes chatting with DH, but then it's early to bed ready to do all that again tomorrow. Thank God I only do two days a week!
I know other people have tough jobs, but please MumsNetters, spare a thought for your knackered teachers - they are doing their best and the last thing we need to see on MN is a thread saying how crap we are to want a bit of work/life balance.

Having worked as a TA with job share teachers I have to say that it was pretty seemless in my opinion. They plan together so everything should flow as it would if only one teacher was with the class. Thats my experience anyway.

Zip - Why do you think that you should worry?
Were you concerned before you read this thread? If so why? You say that your DCs are happy with them all - What exactly are you worried about?

I'm not being sarky I just want to know your concerns.

I don't feel at all worried about job shares in primary school. All that matters is having good teachers!

Actually, having read Morosky's post of 22:11:37, I've changed my mind and will willing quit Primary for a cushy Secondary job!

Think if OP is so concerned then would be better requesting meeting with Ht of schools and raising concerns.

Just maybe things can be improved. Sometimes a job-sharing partnership doesn't work. I know of at least 2 set of partners who didn't even talk to each other, and had completely different ways of doing things. But remember they didn't choose each other- sometimes it just happens though circumstances- schools close or merge and people are moved.

On the other hand many sharers work brilliantlly together and become great friends. Often they don't get any allocated hand-over time- it's all done ad-hoc in the evening on the phone or meeting at weekends- all in their own time.

Partnerships can sometimes be moved around- we do that in my school, sometimes at the request of staff or more often to suit a particular class- imagine that- taking children's needs into account!! Only the most important thing that occurs in school on a daily basis. Staff are way down the list of priorities of the employer.

Oh and I came back to school 3 weeks before the summer holidays from mat break- BECAUSE IT WAS FINISHED AND I HAD TO!