Yes/no poll on religion in state schools.

[seeker]

Do you think state schools should be secular, but with RE lessons giving information about all the main world religions as part of the curriculum?

collective worship, I believe is to give children a sense of community and belonging.

As for segrigation in schools, I cant say I have seen it in my school although Im not saying it doesnt happen in other schools. I think this is because our children have a strong sense of inclusion and community which they are very proud of.

I dread writing Christmas cards with DS because I dont know how to spell the names of his friends.

Sugnaeh
Latiffa
Demitries
Shanique
I dont think any of them are spelt right

I could argue that DS will be excluded from a good grammer school which Im paying taxes for because he isnt bright enough, or paid for the right tuition to pass the entrance exam. I could argue that he cant get into the specailist Vocational college he wants to go to because he lives one street out of the catchment area.

I think the reason why faith schools were introduced in this country is because the church and the parents wanted their children to get part of their religious education through school.

All religions did the same, Jewish, Muslim etc..

Every child has the right to education so it is only right the state faith schools should receive government funding, however the church and parish do actually contribute to the cost. If faith schools were shown to be failing and offering a poorer education nobody would bat an eyelid.

They have no power over getting better trained teachers or management so dispite how much it upsets people, teaching the values of the bible and instilling those values in our children does seem to have some benefits.

Teamcullen: but there are plenty of other ways to promote inclusion, bonding etc than ordering children to shut their eyes and say nice things about an imaginary creature that a percentage of the children will know is imaginary, whether that's because they know that all religion is nonsense or because their families peddle them a different imaginary creature at home. So actually the fact that our state schools peddle one brand of crap is exclusive, not inclusive.
As to the 'values' that schools teach, those of kindness, fair dealing, tolerance etc are not the sole property of any particular myth system. And it is demonstrably true that the reason faith schools do better is because a) they select and therefore are able to exclude all those unruly pleb children, as well as the ones who are poor or have SN of some kind or are a bit foreign and b) if they are the sort where the parents have to pay a year or two's lip service at least to the specific brand of crap they are peddling then this makes for parents who are very involved, pushy and determined - at least very invested in their DC's education.

solidbrass- My DCs Catholic school is in one of the most deprived areas of the country. We have children who have all kinds of issues to deal with at home and can often be seen walking around the streets late at night. I know children who have parents who have drug and alcohol problems, and children whos parents are living with cronic or life thretening illness. A large preportion of the children are entitled to free school dinners, living in poor accomodation.

Furthermore, many children speak English as a second language. They come from places such as Kosivo, Poland, The Congo, Sre Lanka to name just a few , many of these are asylum seekers and refugees. Both my DSs have IEPs for special educational needs.

As for paying "lip service" families are asked to pay a contribution of £10 per family per year. If this makes me very involved, pushy and determined in my DCs education, then I will take that as a compliment.

But the reason our school serves the community so well is because we embrace all of these children and cherish them. Our school is a safe haven where everybody belongs. Because our children are taught that Jesus loved everybody even when all around them saw them as outcasts because they were different or sick, and they are taught to do the same.

Ok what was written in the bible could be a load of old tosh, but Id rather my kids believed that if it shows them how to be good citizens. My DD is 13 and still in a catholic school. she is now beginning to question the bible and no longer takes everything at face value. But that doesnt stop her from being compassinate and caring to people who are not as fortunate as her or feeling jelous of those who have more.

I worked in a school in one of the most deprived areas in the UK. It took in kids from many different religious and ethnic backgrounds.

The kids came from families with numerous drug and alcohol problems and many were asylum seekers. This school was a failing school when I joined it and was facing many problems.

The staff at this school turnedit into a community and gave the pupils ownership of the school and made them feel proud of their surrounding and achievements. All this was done from a non religious stance. It was essentially as secular a school as you can get in the UK.

We held assemblies but these were based around general citizenship guidlines and if religion was mentioned it would be done by the children talking about their own religion (often Islam or Hindu).

I believe that religion hasno place in our schools and is certainly not the only way of instilling morals and good behaviour in our kids.

I voteSecualr - I have been shocked about how mych religion DS has been taught in nursery and reception. \sbout a year ago I cam ehome and he ran out saying Mummy mummy bad news (dramatic pause and Dh looking at m with wtf on his face) I replied "What's that darling?" deaprately racking brain. "The baby jesus is dead" cue me rapdly trying to find response to be cut short by DS saying " but don't worry he's coming back"

It's interesting that people seem to be saying simultaneously that collective worship produces a sense of community spirit AND that if anyone doesn't like it they can withdraw their child from it!

Teamcullen - your school sounds wonderful. But surely there must be children from all faith backgrounds in such a disparate catchment? Why is it OK to teach all of them that 'Jusus loves them"?

And are you saying that you can't be a good citizen if you aren't Christian and believe in the Bible? Because that's what is sounds as if you are saying!

Lol at melbob.. My dd came home the morning after an election once "Mum - Tony Blair's still the Government" "I know" "How do you know? You weren't at Assembly!"

I vote secular

yes secular

no to state funded religious schools

no no no to religious entry criteria for schools which receive state funding

No religion.

In fact if it were my choice I wouldn't have comparative religion until the children are older. I have just found out that ds will be doing RE once a week in reception. I had no idea.

This is far too much emphasis, I would probably implode if they actually taught him to pray.

I'm fine with it when he is older.

but seeker..you do have that option..you could get your child into a catholic school if you really wanted to, I on the other hand have no chance of getting my son into our local grammar school, not just because he isn't super intelligent, but because it takes a large percentage of children from outside the area.

why should i pay for a school i have no chance of accessing..?

My problem is with state non-denominational schools being religious. If you send your child to a church school you know what to expect - when I chose to send my children to a non-denominational school I was horrified when they came home telling me that they were praying in school. As an atheist who was brought up a catholic and attended catholic schools, I was determined that my children would not go to a religious school. Sad thing is I didn't realise that there is no such thing as a non-religious school in this country!

I think they should be secular, and I think public funding should not be directed to single-faith schools.

Seeker DS has a child in his class who is Muslim. He takes part in all parts of collective worship including class masses and religious themed asemblys. He hands out Christmas cards at Christmas.

There are 3 other schools in a ten minute walk from his house so it is not that they did not have a choice of schools. His father is a doctor so he is an educated man, able to make informed choices.

Funnily enough, this child wants to now access a CofE secondary school, which performs better than our local state schools.

I am not saying only christians can be good citizens and if it came accross that way Im sorry. I was expressing an opinion on why I feel these schools often tend to judged as achiving better, because children have a better atitude due to being taught respect and good values through education of religion.

That is not to say that Children cant and dont have the same values from other faiths or other schools dont have the same sucess. There are also plenty of faith schools who are failing, and my opinion is only from my experience.

In response to some of the posts higher up we are muslim, in our lea and the next lea there are plenty of church schools and two muslim schools (one state/one private) a sikh school (private i think)

I wouldnt want to send my child to any of them, i want to teach here my religous beliefs at home, so its not just i dont want her going to a 'different religion' school

If she gets given a place in church school (despite all three of my prefences being non demonational schools) i will refuse it and send her to the private islamic school, but tbh the only benefiits i can see to that is the uniform is easier for me then and they have whole school holidays on Eid so not really educational benefits at all

daftpunk - I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no oomparison - and I have to say it shows a slightly peculiar attitude to your faith to say that if I wanted to access a catholic school I could convert to catholicism! I wouldn't, by the way - my humanist principles are stronger than that.

I don't approve of grammar schools either (despite having a child at one) but at least access to them is governed by what you can do rather than what particular set of myths you espouse.

Absolutely secular.

RebelPaganAndLettingDSGrowUpToMakeHisOwnMindUpTiggaxx

seeker;

it's the non-believers who are always calling for this sort of change, it's almost a jealousy thing....."i don't believe in any god so why the hell should anyone else"

religion is an important part of many peoples lives, parents want the option of being able to send their children to religious schools,...what is the problem..?

if you think having secular schools is the way forward you are wrong....you want divide and conquer.....will never work.

daftpunk - it is not true that it is always non-believers calling for this.

I'm a very active Christian (baptist) and am totally against religion in state schools. Partly as I don't think that any child shoudl be forced to practice a religion that isn't theirs, and partly because it is done SOooooo badly - I hate seeing my faith reduced to a couple of hymns and a story.

daftpunk hardly unless you only class 'believers' as Christians. I'm a Pagan - btw I'm not Wiccan - I absolutely hold that it's an individuals right to choose what religion they follow and that schools have no part in forcing any belief system on anyone.

If you want to send your child to a religous school pay for it.

ThinksThatSchoolsShouldTeachSubjectsNotBeliefSystemsTiggaxx

No-ones saying you shouldn't believe in God, daftpunk. I don't think many of us are in the least bit jealous of your religiousity either. Maybe there are some people who adhere to a minority sect (not CofE or RC) who would like their own flavour of religious education ... haven't heard any such voices so presumably they manage at home and Sunday School (or Koran school or whatever).

i don't know how you can avoid teaching religion tbh, it forms part of most subjects, how can you talk about Hitler and the Jews if children haven't got a clue about religion

if a pupil asks "why are Jewish people the most persecuted race on earth"

what is the answer...?

go home and ask your parents...?..?

Yes