Yes/no poll on religion in state schools.

[seeker]

Do you think state schools should be secular, but with RE lessons giving information about all the main world religions as part of the curriculum?

noidea....religious people are allowed to have a sense of humour...have you ever seen father Ted..?

Father Ted is very funny. The reality of Catholic schooling is not - maybe these words won't come back to bite you in the future. You seem very blnkered set in your ways, I'd love to know what happens to your kids' spiritual life in the future, given your current very uncompromising position.

"you don't want your children singing hymns and saying a prayer..

i don't want my children learning about homosexuality..

i'd call it quits.."

The difference for me is that homosexuals exist ...

lol Quat
except the tooth fairy of course

oh no! That was meant to sound like silly aside but actually makes me sound like Wing Commander D.M. Arse (Ret'd), when half-cut. Particularly 'of course'. So sorry.

daftpunk- you havent done yourself any favours on this thread. All you have done is made the argument for secular education stronger.

For everybody else- Catholic schools and the majority of the parents who send their children to them do not have the views that DP has.

My DS is an Alter Server in our church,(his choice) but if he came home with a book called "Jack has two mummys" Id think that was great. If he came hame and told me he was gay, so what, as long as he is happy. If he came home and told me he didnt believe in God and didnt want to go to chuch any more that would be fine to.

I have seen the comfort and strengh people have recieved from their faith during difficult times. Ive heard people say they cant explain why, but they feel better when they go to chuch.

I do think faith schools have a place in society today as there are plenty of people who want them. As for schools which are not faith schools, colective worship does not have to involve a dominant christan ethos. There are plenty of songs for children to sing together which can give the message of think of others without having to praise God.

I do feel though that people have the wrong idea of the way faith schools teach religion nowadays. When I was young I went to a county primary school where every day we would have asembly. We would begin with a hymm, followed by a story (usually a bible story) then any issues the Head wanted to talk about, The Lords prayer and another hymm.

I had a friend who went to catholic school. She could recite Hail Mary and other prayers word perfect, Knew about the birth, death and resirection of christ but very little about his life. She did not know the story of the good samaritian or the loaves and the fishes. She believed only catholics went to heaven and had the view that CofEs where wasting their time going to church because of this.

I can honestly say, my DCs have not had that type of instruction at their catholic school. They are taught that it is good to follow the teachings of Jesus in their own lives by treating people the way Jesus did, with dignity and respect. It does not matter if they dont know the Hail Mary word perfect.

Teamcullen - that is a good, measured response

However, to correct you slightly - schools which are not faith schools do still legally have to make the children take part in "colective worship [which] does not have to involve a dominant christan ethos". Which is a shame, because as you quite rightly say, "There are plenty of songs for children to sing together which can give the message of think of others without having to praise God."

prettybird, I know coletive worship has to have a christian ethos. I was just saying what I thorght would be the best solution which would involve a colective worship in a way that wasnt worshiping any God.

OK - in which case, I (and most people on this thread ) totally agree with you!

That doesnt mean to say that faith schools should not be allowed to worship in the way of their faith. And people of other or no faiths who wish for their child to attend that school, should not complain that they are doing so, as long as they have the option to opt out.

I think though, people who have such strong views would not send their child to a faith school anyway.

You'd have to sort out admissions though - what if the only school in the village was a Faith school?

The Scottish system of faith schools is different to the one that operates in England, so it is rarely, if ever, an issue - but that is expanding this thread way beyond the OP.

teamcullen.... i have never met anyone who thinks it's ok for homosexuals to adopt children, so i'm sorry, but alot of catholics do think like me.

i'm quite liberal really, don't have a problem with homosexuals....if that's the life they want to lead, fine go ahead, i just think it's wrong to involve children in that life style choice.

that is not a homophobic comment, it's a common sense comment.....and if people can't tell the difference....god help you.

Absolutely DP. Despite showing irrational fear and prejudice against homosexuals that's not homophobia because... you've said it's not. And it's other people who have the problem if they can't understand that.

Who could possibly take issue with such a balanced, well thought-out and carefully argued stance?

Most people on this thread probably sang hymns, took part in nativity plays and went to assemblies at school, a generation ago. Yet I don't see that any of you were "indoctrinated" by that.

Faith schools do not see themselves as there to indoctrinate. They all have a multi-faith RE syllabus, and will challenge students to think things through for themselves. Like all other state schools, they follow the National Curriculum.

Staff at C of E schools do not have to be Christian, so long as they respect the ethos of the school (just like with any teaching job).

Regarding state funding for faith schools, let's not forget that religious people pay taxes too.

I'm in favour of choice, and think it would be sad if there were only secular schools and no faith ones for those who prefer them.

The vast majority of children at church schools are admitted because they live locally, not because they of that particular religion.

Will "secular" schools teach about all the major religions and beliefs, or say that is too difficult, and avoid them all? Will religion effectively be banned and disapproved of, like the ban on religious symbols in secular French schools?

Historically, the churches have given a great deal to education in the UK, setting up many schools where the government of the day failed to do so.

"Most people on this thread probably sang hymns, took part in nativity plays and went to assemblies at school, a generation ago. Yet I don't see that any of you were "indoctrinated" by that."

Oh, ok, so there's no point in hymns at school etc. Fine. Then why not let the schools use that time more effectively then?

Suggesting that a secular school would stop teaching about religion at all is a straw-man argument.

Yes, it's true that historically the churches were heavily involved in teaching. Get 'em young and all that. And the relevance between that historical fact and what's happening today is...?

"Oh, ok, so there's no point in hymns at school etc."

That would only make sense if you believe the point of hymns is indoctrination, which I don't

The churches set up schools because they cared about the education of young people, not to "get em young". Why do people have such a hard time believing that Christians can be altruistic?

Here's the C of E's response to the most requently asked questions about church schools (many of which have been talked about on this thread).

www.cofe.anglican.org/info/education/faqcofeschools

Daftpunk- I have no problems with gay people adopting, fostering or having their own children as long as they love and care for them properly, the same as hetrosexuals.

I actually do know some lovely grounded children who have gay parents.

Can't read the whole thread due to lack of time but to the OP: YES!

the problem is amicissima, is that people think that if you are pro faith schools that you are some narrow minded bible basher who is trying to brainwash everybody because obviously you have been brain washed also.

Unfortunatly Datf punk has done nothing to dispell that belief with her narrow minded views.

Had a brief look at the C of E FAQ about church schools. A lot of the answers seem to fall under the heading of "well, but they would say that."

As I understand it though, the orginal post was not about faith schools - but about state schools, which at present are not allowed to be secular.

teamcullen;

i am pro-faith schools, not really sure what you meant by your last post..?

i don't think they're trying to "brainwash" anyone, i think they provide a good moral basis for further learning and spiritual developement...absolutely nothing wrong with that.

i was brought up by very strict catholic parents that's true, but i can honestly tell you the word "homosexual" was never mentioned in my house, so i was hardly brainwashed into thinking anything, ....i was left to make up my own mind.

i have said repeatedly on here that i haven't got a problem with homosexuality, (although i have said if we were all homosexual the human race would come to an end...make of that what you will as to homosexuality being "normal")

my issues are with children being brought up in a homosexual environment.

certain people on mumsnet (and most definately on this thread) seem to have a problem with that..? why, i don't know....they are probably happy for one eyed donkeys to bring up children, but not for me to have an opinion....

hopefully, when the tories win the next election i will be allowed my opinion back.