Yes/no poll on religion in state schools.

[seeker]

Do you think state schools should be secular, but with RE lessons giving information about all the main world religions as part of the curriculum?

And, btw, I resent the "if you don't like it here you can fuck off back to Israel" implication. I'm British, not Israeli. My heritige is British as far back as I know. I just happen to not be Christian.

Britian can be as Christian as it likes, as long as those of us who aren't are not forced to follow along. Although, I feel I should point out that Britain is traditionally Pagan, and it's only in relatively recent history that Christianity was imposed on us by the Romans.

it's not making a mockery of it seeker, it's a basis to encourage respectful values, i admit alot of schools do pay lip service to the law, but that's better than nothing.

it's only people like SGB who want to get rid of collective worship...why? because she hasn't got any understanding of religion, so what she doesn't understand she wants to ban.

secular schools will never happen seeker.....never, and i'm glad about that, because i'm sick of people who want to destroy the traditions of this country...i honestly don't think they have much going on in life, so they have to pick on something.

AL....it isn't being forced on you...you can withdraw your child if you want.

Um, actually DP, it's not just 'people like SGB' who want to get rid of collective worship in schools. It's pretty much everyone who's posted on this thread, and from what I can see we're a diverse group with a variety of reasons why we'd like to see religion discussed, but not practiced in the schools which we pay taxes for.

mumsnet is about as diverse as something that isn't diverse...so i would take this poll with a pinch of salt..

plenty of parents are happy with collective worship and want it to remain, i support them.

Daftpunk, I think I understand religion pretty well - I spent the first half of my life a Christian and am from a solidly Christian family. I very much want schools to be secularised.

Others on this very thread who are still Christians want schools to be secularised to.

I'm not sure what this is meant to be leading up to but: yes please, get religion out of schools.

secular schools will never happen

I really think they will - at least, non-faith schools will be freed at some point from the requirement for an act of worship. Its increasingly anachronistic. I fear that it will take longer to untangle the faith schools from the state system - but even there, wouldn't bet on 'never'.

So, DP, I counter your assertion with mine: Secular schools will happen!

I really don't see how a religious person could regard her faith as a "tradition". I've said frequently that I am happy to uphold traditions - hence my not having a problem with Nativity Plays. Prayer is, I understood, a robust, active, vibrant part of a religious life - not a tradition!

It will come, Grimma is right. Plenty of people will still be superstitious, but superstition will more and more be regarded with friendly indulgence as just another funny little hobby, like origami or stamp-collecting: enjoy it and do it on your own time, but don't inflict it on those who don't want to know.

seeker....why do you pick little holes in everything i say....i have been very reasonable on this thread, i've told you i can see your point of view, i like tradition, the tradition of having collective worship in schools....

SGB; ...i'm sure you are trying to be funny...

Grimma;

read your link, yes..of course i agree that the laws on homosexuality needed changing.

daftpunk -

I want to get rid of collective worship. I really do!!

I'm a very active churchgoing Christian of the baptist persuasion, I have just voluntarily spent 2 years at an independent Bible college in order to learn more about my faith , we are considering mission work ......

And I want collective worship out of schools.

Its firstly wrong and offensive to ask children to worship who have no faith. Just wrong (and I can reference you a whole load of stuff from college such as the work of Westerhoff to back this up!)

Its secondly often led by and designed by people who have no bloody clue what it really means to be a Christian, or to worship, or to pray in a genuine manner. So it is a bad representation of what it is to be a Christian.

Parents should be responsible for a child's religious practice, not a teacher!

And seeker, you are right. I have learned form the traditions of Christians through the ages (currently very interested in the early Celtic CHristians - they were something else!) but my faith is not a tradition - it is lively, vibrant, some thing I do for now and tomorrow, not cos it was done yesterday!

If schools really must have 'collective worship' to pacify those who find it desirable, they could do it in the lunch hour for those who wanted it.

Bet take up would not be high.

God is not mocked.

the thing is, alot of parents wont bother, maybe the only form of worship a child ever has is at school...could help that child.

But as Weegie has so eloquently pointed out, if it is not sincere and coming from a point of view of vibrant and active faith it isn't even worship.

It is lip-service, which is insulting to believers and unbelievers alike.

I think that I would rather no worship than forced worship.

How is it worship if it is forced? That's not my understanding of what worship is about, which, tbh, might be different to your idea, dp.

I am not picking little holes in everything you say. I am genuinely trying to see your point of view. I GENUINELY don't understand how anyone who takes their faith seriously would want my children mouthing -to them-meaningless words. I GENUINELY don't understand why you think it's OK to completely disregard my beliefs - or those of any non-Christians in out multi-cultural country. I GENUINELY don't understand why you think I should not use state education because I am not a Christian. Or why I am a hypocrite or showing double standards because I do use stare education. I GENUINELY don"t understand why you think I want to destroy the traditions of this country when I have said repeatedly that I want children to learn about religions and celebrate all the festivals we can find for them to celebrate - the ONLY thing I don't want if for them to be obliged to pray, and to be taught Christian (or any other religious beliefs) AS FACT!

I also don't understand why you refuse to believe that there might be more than one or two people who share this view. Despite the evidence of this thread.

Oh AvengingGerbil, i you!

I've been on MN for years and noone has ever called me eloquent!!

No of course a lot of parents won't bother because they don't really believe any of it either.

Not having 'worship' at school could help that child not pick up some halfbaked ideas.

Oh help, I'm starting to write in capital letters. Next thing it'll be green ink and I'll be living on my own in a house with 47 cats writing anonymous letters to the vicar about her-next-door-who's-no-better-than-she-should-be.

Pass the gin, Mabel.

Weegiemum, they just can't have been paying attention

well weegiemum....as my priest often says to us at church....you're not here to have a laugh..you're here out of duty and respect to god.

I'm not saying that we are there to have a laugh (though in our church we often laugh and have a good time).

But if children don't believe in God, why should they be forced to mimic respect or duty to something that they don't believe in?

Children are capable of faith, of experiencing God - and also of choosing not to.

religion should be a private matter.

i think i've said at least twice, if you feel that strongly...you can ask the school to withdraw your child from the collective worship bit..