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Original poster

Steiner education

441 replies

alloveragain · 19/08/2009 01:17

Can anyone suggest an appropriate forum in which I could talk to someone about Steiner education? We have our concerns about it, but our children are still at a Steiner school.
Thanks

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 17/12/2009 15:15

What is the history curriculum in Steiner schools? There have been references to Romans, and Norse -- are any texts followed or used?

Maria33 · 17/12/2009 18:41

The steiner curriculum is a living example of Victorian history.

restlessnative · 17/12/2009 19:37

Great comment Maria33 spot on!

SteinerBullied · 17/12/2009 20:43

Hi NorthernRefugee39

Yes, before what happened we were looking for an alternative education for our children. We were aware of Steiner while in the UK but couldn't afford to send our kids there.

When we arrived in NZ, we tried the local state school but encountered bullying problems there. Our middle child was very happy at the Steiner kindy so we thought we'd send our eldest there too for a kinder, gentler approach to teaching.

Or so we thought.

Our eldest loved the curriculum and the greater freedom she had. She learned to play the violin and countless other things. Sadly, she also had to deal with massive bullying (which the teacher referred to as boisterousness).

The sad thing is, if management had told us from the outset that they were happy with the way things were in her class, we would have left immediately. But they told us that they took this matter very seriously. Mark Thornton, the manager, even told us he had "no tolerance" for bullying.

So we stuck to it. Communicating with the regularly to try and find a solution.

It's obvious now that they were hoping we'd leave like so many other families had in the past, but we take people at their word. So when they backed themselves into a corner, they thought the best thing left for them to do was to abuse and traumatise our kids by chucking us out.

thecaty · 17/12/2009 21:58

So here we have a lot of you assembled, And I think it is time for me to concentrate on our Christmas preparations. Spooky stories from NZ is just what we need for desserts especially if they are told in bold black and white, balanced view good by. I hope you have all learned that you look at something new a bit more carefully next tiime.
NB my brother lives in NZ and I have both side of the story as there always is! or is there?

SteinerBullied · 17/12/2009 23:02

Hey TheCaty

I'd love to hear what your brother has to say about our situation in NZ. It's always good to know what others think.

restlessnative · 17/12/2009 23:06

thecaty boy, you're something else. For myself I saw these very bright, articulate & funny people now in NZ elsewhere on the net, didn't expect to see them appear here. Actually they've never publicly questioned the Steiner pedagogy so you might have had a fruitful dialogue, had you been civil. Since they're Brits and parents of young children they have every reason to come on mumsnet.

Instead, you're keen to tell us about your second-hand 'side of the story', which since it involves young and traumatised children, is in very poor taste.

Not that Steinerbullied needs me to speak up for him. The family have shown unusual courage standing up to shoddy & perplexing treatment, I couldn't have done the same.

restlessnative · 17/12/2009 23:08

Steinerbullied hello - hope you get an answer.

SteinerBullied · 17/12/2009 23:08

One more thing, TheCaty

As for different sides to a story, of course they are. I would hope however that if you read our Archive pages, you'd see balance. It is all the written communication between the school and us from two months prior to our expulsion.

It's a long read, but what else are you going to do over christmas?

gnomesrus · 17/12/2009 23:10

Message withdrawn

SteinerBullied · 17/12/2009 23:11

Oops... forgot to provide you with a link. Here it is

www.titirangisteinermessenger.com/TSM/Archive.html

SteinerBullied · 17/12/2009 23:13

Well, parents of the Titirangi Steiner School call us "mad" now.

Crazy to think that looking after your children is akin to madness...

gnomesrus · 17/12/2009 23:20

Message withdrawn

SteinerBullied · 17/12/2009 23:27

Hi Gnomesrus

Reading through many forums, I've come to understand that.

But I'm still not convinced it's all because of the Steiner philosophy. You see, we found a Steiner school in Devon I believe (found them online) who have an anti-bullying procedure which is very akin to zero tolerance.

There's also an state integrated Steiner school here in Auckland where the behaviour we suffered would not have happened because the Ministry of Education would have had powers to intervene... as opposed to the Titirangi school where it's basically a free-for-all: the ministry can't (or won't) do anything because the school's outside of their ring of influence

TubOfLardWithInferiorRange · 18/12/2009 03:01

Thank you, SteinerBullied for providing the link to the correspondences between yourself and your daughter's former school. I had not read them before, because I do, in general, agree with restlessnative where the sharing of stories about other people's children is concerned.

Having now read them it seems safe to say that "To whom may I speak," is a common question in Steiner schools worldwide. Something to look at with the school in Devon is their policy/procedures on conflict resolution.

SteinerBullied · 18/12/2009 04:43

Hi TubOfLardWithInferiorRange

We concealed all children's names for that very reason but felt it important to share the entire correspondence because we believe we were being extremely reasonable with the school.

The only time things changed were a couple of weeks before the end when we learned that a parent took her child out of Ruby's class because she was having problems with bullying too and they'd very told us we were fighting the same fight at the same time!

SteinerBullied · 18/12/2009 04:45

Oops... no editing options after posting here

I meant to say:

"and they'd NEVER told us we were fighting the same fight at the same time!"

Of course, by "they" I was referring to the management.

TubOfLardWithInferiorRange · 18/12/2009 05:07

SteinerBullied, you can preview your message before sending it. I wouldn't have necessarily expected the management of the school to share this information with me due to confidentiality but I would have expected it to come out in parent meetings/evenings where bullying was discussed and/or in conversations with other parents in the class.

SteinerBullied · 18/12/2009 05:16

Except that they kept telling us that no one had ever mentioned problems with bullying before...

TubOfLard · 18/12/2009 06:23

I sort of get that in the first e-mail when you say you don't want to put yourself "in line for personal flack from angry parents on the basis that this is in any way 'my' issue, or gripe with them." Like maybe no one else saw this as a problem? Or it was an issue for you and you wanted the school's guidance/assistance/support in dealing with it.

TubOfLard · 18/12/2009 06:28

I have shortened my name BTW, though my stovetop is still crap.

SteinerBullied · 18/12/2009 08:44

Hi TubOfLard

We didn't want to put ourselves out for many reasons. One of which was that we were relatively new to the school. Another was that parents can get very volatile when the issue of bullying is brought up, especially if it's their kids that are doing the bullying.

Also, we wanted the school to bring this up themselves since they told us they took the matter very seriously, by organising and hosting a school meeting about it.

After all, they knew the situation and the parents much better than we could.

If you read further, my wife later accepts the role of spokesperson and requests guidance from the school on how to manage this. They never got back to us on that point.

northernrefugee39 · 18/12/2009 11:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

northernrefugee39 · 18/12/2009 11:16

Forgot, no text books allowed ( until they're much older. Our dcs had all left by 11, perhaps thecaty knows)

It all comes from the spoken word of the teacher. The children make their "own text books" by copying and drawing. This seems lovely, but of course it prevents any other ideas being brought in......

northernrefugee39 · 18/12/2009 12:11

SteinerBullied I hope everyone who's interested reads your website. Some of it is quite familiar sounding, the appalling bullying not being addressed for one. My heart goes out to you and your dcs. Poor little things.
At the school where ours were, the teacher actually said that our dc was "winding us up", and another that things were "accidents". There was a great deal of denial.

I particularly noticed what was written about the idea that children "victimised by bullies may be engaging in addictive behaviour"; someone at the school where our children were said words to that effect about a boy my dh was concerned about, who was bullied.

I also found alarming, the adult gossip being repeated by children, and the inference that there was something afoot to damage the reputation of your family. To a lesser or greater extent, this has been detailed before, trying to damage the reputation of historians, critics, journalists, or pathologising parents who speak out. It is extremely dangerous in my view.

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