To withdraw or not to withdraw

[Freckle]

DS1 has been the target for bullies for over a year now. I have approached the school on a number of occasions and tried to resolve the problem. The school has appeared willing to help and, from time to time, the problem has diminished. However, it has always reappeared. DS1 is a prime target for bullies, in that he is not particularly big for his age, very sensitive, desperate to be liked and doesn't retaliate (for which I take full responsibility because that is how I have raised him). I spoke to his class teacher at consultation a few weeks ago and was very disappointed in her response ("well, there's not a lot we can do about it" and, when I mentioned the name of the main bully, "Oh but he's nasty to a number of children" - so, your point is????). Over recent weeks, there have been a number of incidents, resulting in a meeting with the headteacher, at which he promised a number of strategies. Then, on Tuesday last week, there was a major incident of the bully humiliating DS1 in front of the whole class and his class teacher supporting the bully, following which DS1 was so distraught and upset that he couldn't breathe properly or speak. Teacher has since denied the incident (or at least her role in it), but I am absolutely certain that DS1 has related what happened accurately. There followed a meeting with the headteacher and ultimately on Friday DH and I decided to withdraw DS1 from school until the end of term. DS1 is in Y6 and I took him into school each day to do his Key Stage 2 SATS (done alone in the head's office at his suggestion).

My older sister is the deputy head of a large primary school and she has since told me that, if I de-register DS1, his place at a local grammar school cannot be held for him as he will no longer appear on the local education authority register. They will not be able to hold his place for him as it would be the same as holding a place for a child from another authority. I have contacted the LEA and the grammar school, but have been unable to speak to the relavant people.

Do any teachers have any idea what our position is? I cannot send DS1 back into an environment which has robbed him of any vestige of self-confidence and reduced him to the state he was in last Tuesday. However, although I am prepared to home-educate him for the rest of this term, it is not a long-term option and I do not want him to lose his place at grammar school.

Any advice?? Many thanks.

Tatt thanks for the post. DD1 is also out of school and going to grammar in September. Literacy is starting to get a bit dull for both of us so this will liven it up! Do you mind telling me what book your dd has chosen?

Many thanks.

Freckle - I'm so pleased it's worked out. Your son must be so pleased to be away from such a horrible environment. Well done for taking the plunge!

Tatt, thanks for taking the time to post that. We'll discuss what book he'd like to study later today.

The Mexico trip isn't just for Y7s. All year groups have a residential trip - the Y7 trip is to Norfolk, so a bit more mundane! The Mexico trip is open to the whole school - I think 8 places are reserved for each year. I checked with the school to see if any other Y7 (current Y6) pupils had reserved places as I didn't want DS1 to be the only Y7 amongst much older boys. If places reserved for each year are not taken by that year, they are offered to other years, so, technically, he could have been the only Y7. Fortunately at least 3 other Y7s had reserved places, so, given the rotten time he's had over the last year or so, we thought we'd give him a treat. It's also proving quite useful as a carrot (or should that be carat!) to ensure that he doesn't decide home-ed is what he wants to do long-term.

I have had to be very careful that his timetable hasn't included activities such as gamecube, etc., or I would have a mutiny on my hands from DS2 and DS3! As it is I am having to tread a very fine line in not giving them the idea that DS1 is having anything like fun at home.

DS1 is getting very excited about the Kidscape training session, which is good, because there have been a couple of moments when he has realised that he is missing out on a few things (such as school disco - next week - and his residential trip to an activity centre). It's nice to have some things for him to look forward to included in his home-ed programme.

Yesterday, we visited a friend of mine who home-eds her 3 children and it was nice for him to meet up with other children and play around rather than work all day with only me for company.

swedishmum she's chosen to do both the hobbit and a jacqueline wilson book - not sure which one as she's still on the hobbit, probably Best Friends. It was going to be the curse of the gloamgloazer until I started suggesting black food colouring to make the food They were forbidden to do films so Harry Potter/ lord of the rings were out but you could do those.

Thanks Tatt - it's given her something fun to do in our last week abroad (not too stressful - funfairs to visit too!) as we get packed up to move back home after 8 months. Back to the joys of stressful mornings and ironing uniforms. I'll miss HEing the children but just crave a day pushing the baby aimlessly round Bluewater!

Oooh, I could do Bluewater, swedishmum! If you fancy a stroll when you're settled, let me know.

From one extreme to another. Had a letter home today from the school about DS2's behaviour which is, apparently, deteriorating. Rather expected something like this. DS2 has a wicked temper, which he normally manages to control outside of the house. However, with all that has gone on with DS1 he is a little temperamental at the moment and is clearly not controlling himself as he should. Not helped by the fact that DH gave him permission to thump anyone who bothered him more than once . I can see that DH was concerned that DS2 didn't suffer from bullying the way DS1 has, but DS2 is a completely different child and is not ever likely to be a victim of bullying in the same way.

I read the questionnaire for the Kidscape session that DS1 had filled in. Was quite shocked to see that, in answer to the question about whether bullying had ever caused the child to consider harming themselves, DS1 had said yes. I spoke to him about this yesterday and he said that he had wanted to kill himself and go to heaven. He then went on to say that he hadn't done so because he knew how upset we'd be. Sh*t, this parenting lark is difficult.

you are having a hard time, freckle. Have you tried fish oil on the younger one - I've read that it helps to clam aggresive behaviour? In your situation I think I'd want to talk to other children in the class to find out what is actually happening because the school won't have given you much confidence that they know what is going on in the classroom.

Hope you emjoy being back, swedishmum. It'll be a big change for your child(ren). If you find literacy really boring there's a fun CD "The Mystery of Hyphen Hall" that is a sort of mystery story where you find clues by doing educational things. Says 7-11 but for a bright child more like 7-10. Still they love things that aren't too hard and it gives them practise. Probably couldn't get hold of it that quickly but just a thought.

What your older son said reinforces the fact that you were totally right to remove him. Could the younger one be playing up because he wants to be home too? Or is there any chance the school has decided to comment on everything now just to be difficult. I hope it settles down soon - I suppose a big change in schooling can affect the other children as well.
Thanks for the suggestion, Tatt. I'll look out for it for my ds now in Y3 who won't be going back to school for the rest of the school year at least. He was failing there (dyslexic - probably repeating myself,sorry) and doing much better at home (has fish oils too). Mind you, I haven't told the school yet - want to do it face to face rather than via email or phone. I used to work there!

I have no doubt that DS2's behaviour is linked in some way to what has happened to DS1, partly because he resents DS1 being at home and partly because he is unsettled and the other children know what buttons to press. As his father has given him carte blanche to hit back, this is what he is doing and he is now getting into trouble for it.

I asked him why he hadn't been to see the head about the other children targetting him and his response was that he would have to spend all lunchtime trying to speak to the head and it was quicker to push the other boy.

I've insisted that DH come to the meeting on Monday as he was the one who initiated the physical response and I don't see why I should have to justify that approach.

Hope it goes well, freckle. It really sounds like this school needs to tighten up its anti bullying practice in all sorts of ways.

It must be so hard. Given your previous problems with the school, I would think the very least your younger son needs is to know he can speak to someone who he knows will deal with a problem immediately. I've also been there when dh tells them to do something and I end up sorting out the mess!! I don't know what I'd do - I assume you've thought about other schools etc? I know it doesn't necessarily help just to move away from the problem though.
Hope you can all have a fun weekend together at least.

We've thought about other schools, but in all other ways DS2 is doing well at the school. I'm surprised that the school is calling us in so quickly as it should be clear to them that this is the result of what has been going on with DS1. Or maybe that's why they are calling us in now, so that it doesn't escalate and we can see that they are taking action.

Sorry to hear this freckle. I hope you get a decent response this time.

Actually I'm getting quite cross about this now. Having had time to consider it, I'm wondering why it is that we are being called in about DS2's behaviour when the bullies who made DS1's life such a misery were not even spoken to individually and I am certainly unaware that their parents were called in.

I'm hoping that we are not seeing double standards here.

Hi Freckle
I have to say, I was going to post the exact same question, but thought I might have missed something further down the thread. I read this thread yesterday and I'm truly appalled at the manner in which you and ds1 have been treated by the school. Perhaps you and dh can use this meeting to do a bit of plain talking with this wimp of a headmaster you're being forced to deal with. It is beyond belief that you are being pulled up on ds2's behaviour whereas the little sh**s who drove your boy to think suicidal thoughts and eventually leave the school have not even been spoken to. Something is not right here.

Good luck for Monday and great admiration for supporting your children like this.

Well, quite, freckle. I think you're within your rights to ask why not.

In one of my first posts on this thread, I mentioned that the head had spoken about a Y8 child (former pupil of the school) who was in hospital as the result of an attempted suicide because of bullying.

I heard during the week that the child had died. He'd hanged himself. How bl*dy shtty for his family. And I hope those bullies are absolutely bricking themselves.

That's appalling. The headteacher should also be bricking himself. The school has a responsibility to keep the children safe and happy. Sounds as though the anti-bullying policy has a long way to go. Don't stand for any nonsense from him on Monday!

The child who killed himself was a former pupil of the school. Was at secondary school when this happened. Sorry, probably didn't make that clear.

Its possible the school have called you in to be helpful - learning from their mistakes with first child and trying to make sure there is not a similar problem developing.

In your place I wouldn't feel I had to be too defensive about second son - assuming he hit because he'd been hit and not just because he was being annoyed. Wouldn't trust the head to know the truth about that either, but neither should you rely completely on what your son tells you. Try to get an independent view of what happened before you see the head.

Doesn't matter that the child who dies was at secondary school because the problem would most likely have started at primary and built up from there. Anyone who didn't try and stop the bullying should feel guilty.

My attitude would be that if the school took proper care of its kids this incident would not have happened.

I have spoken to a friend whose son is one of DS2's little gang. He has confirmed that DS2 was being targetted by a group of 4 boys. Friend said he'd heard DS2 shout "leave me alone" several times and that he'd eventually locked himself in the loos to avoid these boys. After that, I have no problems with his defending himself.

It may well be that the school is now being pro-active, but why with DS2 and not with the bullies who made DS1's life so miserable? Was speaking to the dad of another boy from DS1's class and he knew who the main bully was without my needing to name him. Says a lot really.

It's appalling - the thought of your little boy locking himself in the loo because he's so scared is dreadful. Easy to say but the headteacher needs to act now. Depending on the outcome tomorrow, I'd be tempted to bring in the governors and the LEA. As an occasional teacher, I'd be mortified if I couldn't provide a safe environment for the people in my care. He obviously needs training on dealing with bullies.

It is DS2's class teacher who has asked us to attend a meeting. I don't know how much she knows about DS1's situation, although I was assured by the head that all senior staff (of which she is one) would be made aware of the bullying after one of our earlier meetings. She must be aware that DS1 was being bullied, although I'm not sure what she knows about his withdrawal.

Her letter, to be fair, is about giving DS2 the support and understanding that he needs, so I don't think it is a question of stamping on his bad behaviour, so much as finding a way to deal with his feelings at the moment.

Well, the meeting went. Not sure whether to add well or otherwise to that.

I was shocked to find out that the teacher did not know about DS1 until immediately prior to our meeting. And this despite the head assuring me that all senior staff would be made aware of the bullying situation. Apparently none of the staff know why DS1 was withdrawn from school. I find this totally shocking. Why haven't the staff been told??

DH was quite assertive and demanded to know if the parents of the children who have been hassling DS2 have been called in for meetings or whether it's just us. She didn't answer. I felt a bit sorry for her because she has obviously gone into this meeting not knowing the whole background. When I told her that the head had, at one of our meetings, told DS1 to hit back with impunity, she said "Oh no, Mr. X wouldn't say that. I know he wouldn't tell a child to hit back." Well, sorry, but I was there and he did. And now, when we have given the same advice to DS2, he gets into trouble for it.

Anyway, we made our feelings clear - that the school is operating double standards by calling us in for relatively minor incidents involving DS2, but have ignored the persistent bullying of DS1 over a long period of time - and we are having another meeting on Thursday after she has had time to check out a few things.

It sounds like you got your points across very clearly and without aggression.

It also sounds like this school suffers from a lack of strong, effective leadership (to put it mildly). What a wishy washy wimp of a headmaster you are having to deal with: his attitude has a top down effect hence the response of ds1's teacher in siding with the bully in front of the whole class and then this (albeit well-intentioned) lopsided attempt to deal with a problem by ds2's teacher.

I hope your meeting today prompts a more appropriate response by the school to this problem. Good luck for Thursday.