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Original poster

Headmaster upset my son by shouting at him

84 replies

birty · 09/05/2009 13:25

Today I picked my son up from school and he flooded into tears!! (he is 6) It took me a while to get it out of him what the matter was. He just wanted to go home and I told him I wasnt leaving school until I knew what was going on and if he didnt tell me I would ask the headmaster. As soon as I mentioned the headmaster he cried and wanted to go home even more!! My son told me that he was hiding from his class teacher and she sent him to the headmasters office. The headmaster then shouted very loudly at him in front of a parent, teacher and other children walking by. He was frightened. I told the headmaster he was upset and he said so he should be he needs to learn how to behave! I was quite upset by that remark and told him I do not want my son to be screamed at and that I was happy for him to be punished but not shouting at him as he was in bits. I explained how intimidating it is for a bigger person shouting at a smaller person is not good and he replied dont tell me how to run my school. I was so cross that my partner went down to speak to the headmaster. My partner too could see how upset our son was. What does anyone think? Should I take further action?

OP posts:
ellingwoman · 09/05/2009 15:04

I think the OP's post was cut and pasted from another thread yesterday Picante!

gatheringstones · 09/05/2009 15:06

is the op - or anyone else saying the child shouldn't have been told of? a stern voice? fine. no problem with that. if a child found that upsetting, fair enough. they've got to toughen up and learn to behave!

the question is - should a headteacher shout at a six year old?

i'd say, as a general rule, no.

hercules1 · 09/05/2009 15:07

Sorry I really think you are storing up trouble for yourself by complaining about this. He got shouted at for being naughty...

MrsWeasley · 09/05/2009 15:11

It is possible your child was so upset because he didnt like being told off. He got caught out, he will learn.

I would be very concerned at the Parent governor telling tales. As a governor she should have know better and is in a better position to have dealt with this in a more professional way.

RustyBear · 09/05/2009 15:13

There is a big difference between 'being scared of the headteacher' and 'being scared of being sent to the headteacher'

MrsWeasley · 09/05/2009 15:14

known

Takver · 09/05/2009 15:16

I can see I am in the minority here, but I have a lot of sympathy with the OP. Six years old is very small, and I would have thought that it would be far more productive to explain to the child why his behaviour was wrong, rather than to scare him. I would imagine the most likely result of treating children like this is to put them off school entirely, rather than to motivate them to behave better.

I should confess here that my parents made it entirely clear to me when I was at primary school that they thought our headmaster was wrong about many things.

Things like 'there's no point teaching girls chess because they aren't able to learn play it well' for example.
Or like giving children who were being entered for private school exams extra coaching (in a state school).

I could add many other examples. People are not automatically always right just because they are in a position of authority, and it is IMO wrong to teach a child that they should never question a teacher.

Original poster
birty · 09/05/2009 15:21

hercules1 are your children scared of you because thats the impression I m getting? Is it healthy to be scared of your parents. In my books its not they way to gain respect.

OP posts:
hercules1 · 09/05/2009 15:24

They know I am in charge and if they are naughty then they will be in trouble. Pretty normal I think. Just because frankly I think it is ridiculous that you are complaining that you're child apparently got shouted at for being naughty doesnt mean my own kids quiver in fear at me....

MrsWeasley · 09/05/2009 15:25

Takver: Oh I have loads of sympathy with the OP. It is heart breaking when your children come out upset, I know I have been there! (DD came home in tears most days last year, due to her teacher )

If a child is in the right and the teacher in the wrong then yes question the teacher but the OPs son was misbehaving. IMHO if you choose to send your children to school your children much learn to behave in an acceptable way. How would you feel if your child came home saying he couldnt do our reading today because XXX was hiding and the techer had to look for him?

saintmaybe · 09/05/2009 15:26

BUT the way the head spoke to the op is surely not acceptabl? Even if you think that shouting at and intimidating children is ok, and i know lots of people do, the op is an adult wanting to talk to the head about something she's concerned about. I do respect teachers, as i respect everybody but I certainly don't become one of the children when I speak to a school head, and I'd absolutely expect a civil, reasoned, adult discussion.

hercules1 · 09/05/2009 15:28

The trouble is we are only hearing the op's version of how she talked to the head. I know I wouldnt have gone to speak to the head in the first place apart from making my child apologise to him.

ellingwoman · 09/05/2009 15:30

Well maybe birty wasn't reasonable saintmaybe. She did say to him 'I don't want my son screamed at' and yet nowhere else did she mention screaming. Maybe he reasoned she was overreacting and couldn't be bothered to go that extra mile to be civil after a hard week. Who knows.

hercules1 · 09/05/2009 15:33

I agree ellingwoman.

Takver · 09/05/2009 15:33

I guess I feel in general that teaching children how to behave well is very different to shouting at them when they behave badly . . .

And yes, dd has come home very upset because she was sent to the head-teacher - but she was embarrassed (not to say mortified) rather than just upset IYSWIM because it had been explained to her (I imagine very clearly and slowly in words of one syllable) exactly why what she and others had done was wrong. I am very certain no shouting was involved or needed.

Takver · 09/05/2009 15:38

The other thing I would say is that whenever my dd has come out of school in tears, her class teacher has made a point of explaining to me why, and what has happened.

It only takes her a few seconds (we have to pick KS1 children up from the classroom door) and I think that it is really good practice.

In fact the time mentioned above, the head-teacher spoke to all of the parents whose children were involved in the incident (using the toy storage box as a boat and pushing it down a slope in the playground until it broke) when we were picking up and mentioned what had happened - not in a 'punish them again' way, but just so we knew what had been going on and why they were upset.

sobanoodle · 09/05/2009 15:39

birty you and your son are going to have to suck it up.
He misbehaved.
being shouted at = not perfect, but not the end of the world either and far less relevant than getting your son to understand that misbehaving has undesirable consequences.

piscesmoon · 09/05/2009 15:41

I think it is all an over reaction. The DS shouldn't have been hiding from the teacher, I can see that it would cause panic if a 6 yr old was missing and no one knew where he was.
The Head might have had better ways of handling it, but the important thing is that the DS won't do it again and will probably make sure that he doesn't get sent to the Head.
I wouldn't make a big deal out of it but just sympathise and say that if he is doing something that he knows he shouldn't do he is likely to get into trouble.

traceybath · 09/05/2009 15:49

Blimey - i wouldn't have been happy at ds being shouted at for hiding.

Good teachers/head teachers shouldn't need to shout - to me that demonstrates loss of control - i know thats when i as a parent shout.

How do you feel about the school generally though? Is this symptomatic of larger concerns you have.

I do believe though in backing up staff and would probably have told dc that they'd been naughty and i hoped they wouldn't do that again. But i would have made an appointment with the head without child present and discussed what happened.

All seems terribly dramatic though and i do wonder slightly what was said.

Takver · 09/05/2009 16:04

traceybath I think you speak a lot of sense.

I don't think I'm rational on this issue as (as well as being a sexist bigot) my primary school headmaster was an appalling bully, and picked on some children - particularly boys from low income families - really dreadfully.

Even though I didn't get picked on, I still 30 yrs later have automatic sympathy for small boys who get shouted at by headmasters. . . And I don't assume that headteachers are always right.

cory · 09/05/2009 16:19

On the face of it, it does sound as if the head was rude to the OP. On the other hand, I think I would need to know how she started the conversation, what tone of voice she used etc before I judged him. I have heard some parents storm into school before now in a very intimidating fashion. Otoh I have also been patronised by a snooty head. It's really impossible to know from the OP which this was.

The thing I do find a bit odd is that her instant reaction when her son came out crying was to say that if he wouldn't say why, she'd go and see the head. I can't say that would have been the first reaction of most people I know. He could have been crying for all sorts of reasons that were nothing to do with the head.

edam · 09/05/2009 16:35

I'm with Cory - hard to know whether OP is being unreasonable, or whether it's the head.

And it's downright weird that the OP threatened her child with going to the head when it suited her, but is then horrified to discover that her child didn't like being sent to the head!

LadyGlencoraPalliser · 09/05/2009 16:38

I have a six year old DD and she would know darn well that hiding from the teacher was not fun, but extremely naughty and likely to have consequences. Six is not too little to know how to behave in school. I would expect her to be sent to the head. Also did you get the class teachers account or did you rely on your son's version of events?
Personally, I would not like to hear a headteacher shouting at a six year old, BUT, Birty I would like to know exactly how YOU approached HIM - were you polite and reasonable or were you confrontational?
I have seen a lot of parents come into school shouting the odds about some incident their child has been involved in and you can hardly be surprised if it antagonises the staff who have to deal with it.
Obviously, you MAY have been the soul of politeness and reasonableness, in which case I agree that the headteacher was rude.
What did your partner say to the head by the way?

TheFallenMadonna · 09/05/2009 16:39

I agree with cory. If my child were crying and I didn't know why, I might ask the class teacher, but I wouldn't go running to the Head.

piscesmoon · 09/05/2009 16:51

I would guess that OP was quite confrontational to start with; the Head wouldn't have told her not to tell him how to run his school if she had merely gone to ask him what happened in a polite, conversational way.
I think the whole thing is best left, the Head possibly shouted in a way that shouldn't have been necessary, but it doesn't do DCs harm to know that adults can get annoyed and be unpredictable, he will come across them in real life.

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