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Education

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Original poster

Headmaster upset my son by shouting at him

84 replies

birty · 09/05/2009 13:25

Today I picked my son up from school and he flooded into tears!! (he is 6) It took me a while to get it out of him what the matter was. He just wanted to go home and I told him I wasnt leaving school until I knew what was going on and if he didnt tell me I would ask the headmaster. As soon as I mentioned the headmaster he cried and wanted to go home even more!! My son told me that he was hiding from his class teacher and she sent him to the headmasters office. The headmaster then shouted very loudly at him in front of a parent, teacher and other children walking by. He was frightened. I told the headmaster he was upset and he said so he should be he needs to learn how to behave! I was quite upset by that remark and told him I do not want my son to be screamed at and that I was happy for him to be punished but not shouting at him as he was in bits. I explained how intimidating it is for a bigger person shouting at a smaller person is not good and he replied dont tell me how to run my school. I was so cross that my partner went down to speak to the headmaster. My partner too could see how upset our son was. What does anyone think? Should I take further action?

OP posts:

Dillydaydreamer · 09/05/2009 14:13

Sorry but imho it is precious parents in this sort of situation that leads to discipline issues in schools. Vocal tellings off or shouting/detention are the only real possible punishments for poor behaviour. If the headmaster had gone in lightly he might think about making the behaviour a habit. The fact he came down hard will probably prevent many further bollockings down the line. FGS when I was at school naughty children got the ruler, blackboard rubbers thrown at them, keys and various other missiles thrown at them if they misbehaved.
He cried, so what, he misbehaved and was punished and will think carefully about doing it again and consequences. He is only 6 however, as others have said this is old enough to understand what is acceptable behaviour in class. Hiding from the teacher is serious because if there was a fire she wouldn't know where he was.

annh · 09/05/2009 14:13

I was in my sons's school this week doing some Governor stuff and heard the headteacher shouting at two boys, older than the OP's son, maybe about 10. She really, really shouted at them about something fairly trivial (nothing involving violence or bullying or anything like that). She made ME feel really scared and unhappy and I wasn't even involved! Another parent, the school secretary and several teachers also heard and were obviously concerned/uneasy about the situation. It was a total over-reaction and shocked me. Those children would have been well justified in bursting into tears when they went home! My point is that unless you were there, you can't really know how the headteacher really behaved although it is telling that a parent who witnessed it thinks it was OTT.

Dillydaydreamer · 09/05/2009 14:16

If my child sees the HT she needs to worry more about my reaction when she gets home and I find out about it!

UndertheBoredwalk · 09/05/2009 14:16

Dee I think it's an awful idea for children to be scared of their headteacher! Especially at primary level.
At my DD's school the head is fairly hands on and is in classes a lot. The kids are sent to him for both good and bad behaviour. They get treats from him for being particularly good, and a talking to if particularly bad.
He doesn't shout at the kids, he doesn't need to. The kids like and respect him, having to face him when naughty is enough for them to feel horrible about it.
I wouldn't be happy about what happened to op's ds at all. I wouldn't go above anyone's head though. I may put in writing to the head my concerns over how it was dealt with emphasising that you agree that ds was naughty and did warrant punishment, leave it at that and just keep an eye on things.

A good headteacher shouldn't have to resort to this.

Original poster

birty · 09/05/2009 14:18

My son understands what he did was wrong. I think may be if the headmaster wasnt so abrupt and rude maybe this situation may of been different?

OP posts:

Mutt · 09/05/2009 14:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DeeBlindMice · 09/05/2009 14:24

"The kids like and respect him, having to face him when naughty is enough for them to feel horrible about it."

OK, so what will he do when there is a child at the school who doesn't feel horrible about being sent to him?

Who doesn't like or respect him?

Whose parents have made it clear that they will fight with the school if the school punishes the child?

Being "liked and respected" isn't always enough. In a school with responsible parents who maintain a good relationship with the teachers and head, then fine. But in a school with parents who bollock the head in from of their kids?

No way.

Also, I suggest that if you have a problem with your school that you should make an appointment and talk to the person in question face to face rather than writing a letter in the first instance.

Dillydaydreamer · 09/05/2009 14:26

As Mutt said, you are doing him no favours because he will learn that if he cries at the school gate after a telling off then you will go in and defend him.
My dd1 is only 3.4 but if someone else tells her off when she does wrong and she cries to me she gets no sympathy. I don't want my child playing me against other adults, be it family and friends or her pre-school.

ellingwoman · 09/05/2009 14:28

Birty - did he understand he was wrong because he was shouted at? If so, maybe it worked and he won't do it again. A 'talking to' might not have had the same impact

saintmaybe · 09/05/2009 14:29

Can't believe how many people think it's ok for the head to shout at a 6 yr old. would indicate total lack of real authority as well as understanding to me. And seriously, the appropriate response to the op pointing that out is 'don't tell me how to run my school?'.
No wonder there are probs in schools with bullying, sounds like it starts from the top down here.

ellingwoman · 09/05/2009 14:29

Birty - did he understand he was wrong because he was shouted at? If so, maybe it worked and he won't do it again. A 'talking to' might not have had the same impact

roisin · 09/05/2009 14:31

Birty - the best way to damage a child's prospects at school is for parents to be unsupportive of the school staff and their methods. If you don't agree with them, you should leave.

I work in a secondary school and it is very clear to any school staff how damaging this approach is.

At ds2's primary they have a superb Head. If/when she is telling pupils off she is terrifying, but they all love her to bits because she is genuinely interested in them, knows them individually and gives them personal praise and encouragement. She doesn't actually shout, but is all the scarier for it IMO!

moondog · 09/05/2009 14:35

FFS
No wonder education is in a mess.
Kids should be upset for receiving a deserved bollocking.
Honestly!!

UndertheBoredwalk · 09/05/2009 14:35

I can understand that having parents who question everything at school and children who don't resepect head would cause problems Dee, and I'd be fairly sure there are some at our school. Obv I don't know the ins and outs of how it's dealt with but I do know that however it's done it isn't done by intimidation.
I can't agree that fear is the way to control children, it just doesn't work. You control them while they're small by scaring them? All that will do is breed contempt and you end up with kids growing to hate school, hate their teachers and having no respect at all for the system or their aurthority - why should they, if all they encounter is adults shouting and scaring them?

saintmaybe · 09/05/2009 14:40

It's not exactly a good way to get a parent on-side though, is it? If the head had said 'glad you came in, let's talk about this, this is what happened, understand your concern, but felt scaring him was necessary because ...' op might still have disagreed but it shows a bit of thought and respect, fgs.

gatheringstones · 09/05/2009 14:41

so we should all shout at our kids when their behavious falls below a certain level and teach them that the only people who deserve respect are those we're frightened of?
and when they're older and no longer afraid of shouting what punishment to we inflict then? a slap? and when they're older still?!

and while i'm here. it's the child's motivation for hiding - mischief surely - which should be judged. he isn't to know at six that the teacher could be 'terrified' of losing him or that if there was a fire and he was lost etc etc.

he's six fgs. he was mucking around. yes, reprimand him. explain why it was wrong. talk to him about it.

please, don't terrify him.

and i'd be very unimpressed with a head who, when queried, said 'don't tell me how to run my school'. defensive when critisised? another great example to set.

Original poster

birty · 09/05/2009 14:43

If the head had explained to him how serious it was to hide from his teacher I think he would of understood. I think at the time it was just fun!! He did not realise how serious it was. He's only six. You dont need to make a child scared to put that point across

OP posts:

ingles2 · 09/05/2009 14:47

My sons would be in big trouble with me if I found out they were hiding in school, never mind the head!!!!
That's got to be one of the worst things they could do imo. Imagine the blind panic at trying to find a missing child.
I don't agree with excessive shouting from teachers/head but maybe he thought he'd shock your son.
It worked didn't it!
I certainly wouldn't storm off after one incident to see the head only if I thought it was a regular issue
I imagine you weren't that calm either which is why you got short shift and then your partner went down there!
blimey!
I bet you've been noted as a trouble maker as well.

gatheringstones · 09/05/2009 14:49

agree entirely birty. i still remember being humiliated in primary school because i was wearing trousers (er, girls had to wear skirts). never good to frighten children if you want to promote a learning environment i feel!

gatheringstones · 09/05/2009 14:52

'storming'?! 'a trouble maker'?! jeez. where are mn-ers digging these phrases up from? are you sure you're not all teachers of the 1970s.
i'm waiting for 'a member of the awkward squad' and 'that bell's a signal for me not you'.

here's to troublemakers if that means questioning someone in authority who gets it wrong (as most people seem to accept frightening a six year old is not a good habit in a primary school head).

did birty say she had 'stormed'?

MrsWeasley · 09/05/2009 14:54

I work in a school and our headteacher is great but if he has to speak to a child he only has to "use his stern" voice and the child feel they have been told off big time.

If usually has the desired effect. (ie a child will behave in future because they don't want to upset the HT again)

Hiding from a teacher is naughty and the child should be punished and if he is upset maybe he will act better next time. The teacher would have been looking for him and therefore the rest of the class would be waiting and not being able to be taught.

Why was the informing parent in school? If they were helping they shouldnt be repeating anything they see or hear, surely?

Picante · 09/05/2009 14:57

Why was he at school on a Saturday?

hercules1 · 09/05/2009 15:03

Jesus, you're child was naughty and got told off. How embarrassing that you feel you have to go and make such a fuss.
If it were my child I'd have told them off too.

Original poster

birty · 09/05/2009 15:03

the parent was a govener and she said if it was her son being shouted at like that she would want to know about it too. She said you would of had to be there to apprieciate how loud he was. teachers are not always right and it wouldn't hurt every now and again for them to admit it instead of being rude. My son didnt know how serious it was to hide from the teacher. (he hid in his class room under the table) I think we forget what it was like to be six

OP posts:

hercules1 · 09/05/2009 15:04

not "you're but "your"

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