Parents to blame for problems in UK schools

[Amey]

Any opinions on this article in the Observer. Mumsnet's Justine Roberts gets a name check and makes some sensible comments.

Personally, I think it tough to expect kids to be fully socialised and ready to learn at 4 years old!!

At Primary in 1979 i finished at 3.15 in infants and 3.30 in juniors - my senior school in 1986 finished at 3.50

BUT we started later than my kids do now - my DS's start at 8.50 and 9am - we started at 9.10/9.15ish

its horses for courses really - also, lunchttimes are shorter often than not nowadays (when i started in my current school lunchtimes were 1hour and 15 minutes now lunch is 50 minutes)

both my DS's finish school at 3.15pm (infants and juniors)

Stillenacht and feralgirl I dont think you become a teacher to work to the letter. I am sure I do a lot of things my union would frown at but I get so much joy from my job it is worth going that extra mile. As a teacher you are on duty all the time, while it is important to have some time out at lunch that needs to be balanced with the fact you are in loco parentis. Parents dont take a break and while you are assuming that role neither do you. Sitting and chatting with students at lunch helps to build those relationships that make life easier in the classroom.

Of course you don't twinset - everyone knows that... i work at lunch i don't have the luxury of sitting and chatting at lunchtime - i run 5 extra curricular clubs (orchestras, choirs, bands, quartets etc) at lunchtime...

You see I couldnt do that so I take my hat off to you, as I do to all music teachers. I run one club and hold reward events and do a few duties but other than that it is strictly chatting from me.

My classroom used to be next door to a music room and it used to drive me mad listening to her KS3 classes all day, the thought of doing that in lessons, lunchtimes, before and after school would push me over the edge.

tell me about it....

I always dread music covers as well.

I think everyone does - still, someones gotta do it

My hat goes off to all those teachers who give their lunch hours etc to make school more rewarding for everyone. I had a wonderful drama teacher who did this.

I knew that things had changed since the 80s but I didn't know that teachers were sooo closely monitored that there is no chance they can pick on children unobserved anymore. It must be quite disturbing to have your seniors popping in and out all the time. How do the children concentrate?

I think teachers could pick on children unobserved tbh. But it would not last long as another child would tell their head of year or a senior teacher.

When I did supply in a good comp, they had a really good setup for music covers. They had booklets of worksheets for each yeargroup and they would work through them at their own pace (in silence). I learnt a lot too! I think this is fine as long as there aren't too many absences.

Drama is the cover that I don't like. Drama studios often don't have chairs and certainly not desks, so you can have students sitting on the floor. Then if the cover work is for them to rehearse lines or write their own - it is going to be a disaster, because they will tell you that whatever bad behaviour they are exhibiting is in the play. On the plus side, drama studios are often sound-proofed .

Yes drama is even worse, at least for a music cover they tend to leave worksheets.

'How come schools finish so early now?'

They used to start at 9am, they had a morning break, one and a half hours for lunch and an afternoon break.
Now they start any time between 8.30 and 9am, they have a morning break, lunch is cut to one hour and (for the juniors)there is no afternoon break. At the very least, three quarters of an hour has been cut off the school day.

Whilst, I totally agree that the violence and confrontations experienced by the teachers in the article (and on this thread) are unacceptable, I doubt that Mary Bousted is going to change those children and parents behaviour with this article or this week's ATL conference.

Mary Bousted claims 'Too many children start school without the social and verbal skills to be able to take part in lessons and to behave well....if [schools] are to succeed, then more parents have to put more effort into their parenting and into creating the conditions in which their children come to school ready and willing to learn.

I have two problems with this:

1. Four years of age is very young to have achieved the social and verbal skills required to take part in lessons. In my view 5 years of age (year 1) is too young for many children to sit still and learn for any length of time. Maybe we need a more realistic view on infant school education if the teachers are genuinely not happy with the young children's readiness for formal schooling.

1. Modern parenting is a 'fact of life'. Yes, we all could do better and in the case of very poor parenting assistance should be offered. But, just as my generation were often 'latch key kids' allowed out to play all day with permissive, swinging parents (in the word of the Daily Mail at the time, at least ), our children are often 'baby-sat by 24hour tv and the Internet'.

If this article is a true reflection of some teacher's attitudes to their pupils then we do have a problem. Maybe its not and teachers are totally committed to teaching whoever turns up in their class - and that's great!!

I expect good teachers will still be good teachers where-ever the ATL lay the blame. My worry is that the weaker teachers use 'poor parenting' as an excuse to 'write off' pupils.

Amey - IME KS1 children are very rarely asked to sit longer than 15 mins at any activity. I'm sure most could sit for hours in front of a TV though!

Bellingwoman. Things have obviously improved since my ds (now year 5) struggled to sit for a 'literacy hour' at just turned 5 years old. That's a relief - it seemed pretty cruel to me.

But the ATL certainly have some problems with young children's 'readiness to learn'.

I think this is sad because in my experience (admittedly only helping in class and Sunday school teaching) most four and five olds are desperate to learn - just not in a formal way.

Oops - added a 'B' sorry ellingwoman.

The Literacy hour never meant sitting for an hour, and especially not at 5.

The reception class have gone back to play. Teachers are not expecting them to do anything advanced-just for the majority to be able to talk in sentences, follow instructions, be able to hang a coat on a hook, be able to go to the toilet and wash their hands etc.

Feenie, well it did at ds's school and a few others I know of. I think the teachers just wanted to 'get it out the way', first thing, when there was a hope of achieving it, and then get onto the more interesting stuff. It did include reading to volunteers which broke it up a bit. But most kids sat in their chair for half an hour at least. Which was tough on the 5 year olds.

Ah, now we are down to sitting for half an hour.

"and a few others I know of. I think the teachers just wanted to 'get it out the way', first thing, when there was a hope of achieving it, and then get onto the more interesting stuff. It did include reading to volunteers which broke it up a bit."

Sorry, this is just a load of rubbish! I can accept that just your ds's school might have screwed it up that spectacularly badly, but there's no way on earth any more would have!

Feeenie,

As I have already said, I am pleased to find out that my ds's experience of 'sitting for an hour' i.e between the hours of 9:15 and 10:15 writing and reading (he maybe moved chairs)is no longer happening (and apparently was rare even at the time). I can only base my impressions on one school and comments made by friends about their dcs' schools. I assume you work in education and have full knowledge of how most schools interpreted government guidelines for year 1 children to spend an hour of literacy everyday. In that case, I happily bow to your superior knowledge.

Don't wish to upset you, Amey. As you say, I don't think you knew the full ins and outs of the Literacy hour, it couldn't possibly have been like that every day, but I can appreciate your general comment that you felt young children sat too long.