Parents to blame for problems in UK schools

[Amey]

Any opinions on this article in the Observer. Mumsnet's Justine Roberts gets a name check and makes some sensible comments.

Personally, I think it tough to expect kids to be fully socialised and ready to learn at 4 years old!!

As you say Feenie teaching is not what it was and there are quite a few teachers in their late 40s to 50s who signed up for one career and have another and they are not happy. The headteacher at the school I worked at previously used to say he would not become a teacher now, when he started teaching consisted of turn to page 54 read and answer the questions. He woudl stroll into school 10 minutes before the start of the day and leave about 4pm. In the summer he would travel for the whole 6 weeks as there was no expectation to do anything in the holidays. There are quite a few teachers of this age bracket who do not work as youg keenies like me and have grown to dislike their job and the children they teach. (Not all, I hasten to add.) Some of my teaching idols are of this age. But what are they supposed to do, they need to stay to keep their pension up to date.

I agree womble I never allow my pupils to watch films to have fun whatever the day of the term. On the last day of term I bring in board games and that is my concession to fun.

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r.e. Teachers you know who do not work their arse off, or do what they need to do and no more.

It's impossible in Primary, twinset, there is nowhere to hide in the demands of planning the new Literacy and Numeracy frameworks, constant monitoring, etc. I have seen off a couple of dinosaurs in my time - but back in 1997 when I did the training for the first Literacy Strategy in our school!

Perhaps Feenie I dont know I teach secondary. So where have they all gone then, it is very hard , too hard in my opinion, to sack a teacher.

Taken early retirement/retired on ill health grounds (stress, couldn't hack it), ime.

Yes I suppose so, because it is so hard to sack teachers I have seen schools bully members of staff into sick leave or early retirement.

Most of the children behave well. and most of the adults too. otherwise we would be unable to survive in society.

Many teachers are good and since we are kids we have all learnt to respect them. The same goes for parents.

However, some teachers (and I can remember at least 3 from childhood) and some parents are terrible. Some even abuse kids in terrible ways (also teachers).

Can everything be resolved teaching kids to respect authority for the sake of it? I mean, how can a child address abuse, for instance, if he/she is told to respect authority blindless.

There are many problems in society. It is good to work out the best ways. I personally believe schools work much better now than in the past (partially because of accountability). Probably parents have not improved as much as schools. Believing this is all about making kids obedient... well, no

If, by bullying members of staff into sick leave or early retirement, you mean expecting planning to be done, books to be marked and lessons to be something other than pages of exercises copied from a textbook while they sat on his arse, then yes, we've done that!

' I think meal times would be far more successful if the staff sat down to eat with the children at lunch as happens routinely in the private sector. '

What lunch time? It would be lovely if teachers had a lunch time! At one time they did this and lunchtimes ran for an hour and a half and schools didn't finish until at least 3.30pm. Teachers then won the right not to do lunch duties and lunchtime was shortened and lunch staff employed.
When I am working I have one hour. It is usually down to 50 minutes by the time I have completely finished the morning session. I then have all the preparation for the afternoon to do, I make myself take 20 minutes to eat my lunch but it can get whittled down to 15 minutes, or if very stressed, 10 minutes. In an ideal world it would be lovely to sit and chat to the DCs as if I had all the time in the world-as it isn't ideal I generally manage it for Christmas lunch when the lunchtime is extended.

It's more than just good teachers and not so good teacher's. There are good schools and bad schools.

A school in a deprived area can make a dramatic improvement to the life of its pupils with good leadership, discipline, dedicated teachers and a strong ethos.

Feenie - I know of primary schools in affluent areas where many teachers would fit twinset's description: just looking for a (relatively) easy life and content to do the minimum required. Maybe that's what they signed up for - but blaming the parents everytime they get a more difficult child (you do the best you can with what you get) is not professional imo!

"but blaming the parents everytime they get a more difficult child"

No one has claimed teachers do this, Amey, as far as I am aware.

It depends how it is done. I am sure I must have been a nightmare to work for when I was in management as I work crazy hours and a perfectionist but I try to do it in a supporitive way. I have seen teachers given nightmare classes and timetables to push them over the edge, withdrawal of any support with such classes. Constant observations, even though this is not allowed. (I personally think staff should expect staff to appear at any time, I always teach with my door open) Accidentally sending emails to colleagues in which they are being slagged off. Yelling at colleagues, picking them up over minor mistakes that we all make and making it a formal disciplinary matter. I could go on...

I was talking to a supply teacher who goes to a school in the private sector. She was telling me how lovely it was. She gets a free, delicious, lunch-I didn't ask whether she sits with the DCs, but if she does it isn't a hardship because she has periods of the day when she doesn't do anything-e.g someone comes to take them for ICT or French or dancing and she isn't expected to do anything! In the state sector, if someone takes your class for French you have to take their class for something-or it counts as PPA time-you are never free!

We are expected to eat with the students, it is hardly a chore. I like to sit with the kids and chat.

Can't condone any of that, twinset, we simply expected them to do the job for which they were paid.

I agree with you r.e. doors open - so do I, unless it's noisy for any reason.

No I sincerely believe they are not all like my DS's school Piscesmoon, which is why I wouldn't make any ridiculous comments about all schools letting children down etc. - most of them don't, I think most of them by and large are doing a good job, just as most parents are.

Ha, I swore I wasn't going to return to this thread as it made me start thinking about school while I'm supposed to be enjoying my mat leave!

I don't think anyone claimed that all teachers are angels all the time; there are lazy teachers who do a crap job but we certainly don't get away with humiliating, hectoring and bullying our students in the way that we ourselves might have experienced when we were at school.

You can't pick on kids and you can't have favourites; I hear teenagers telling me constantly that "miss/ sir gave me a detention because (s)he doesn't like me", which is rubbish. I know that if I'd sat in that classroom and watched what was going on, the kid will have deserved any sanction they got.

My suggestion to any parent who thinks the same is to ask the teacher if they can come and observe them teaching (I've actively encouraged parents of difficult pupils to do this in my room) as it invariably gives the parent a very different perspective.

We are 100% accountable for what we do, 100% of the time. I can be OFSTEDed with a moment's notice; our managers are regularly in and out of our rooms; and, as many you are adequately demonstrating, parents hold us to account (which is fair enough) and are very quick to give their opinion about how well we do our job (which often isn't).

FWIW, I don't sit and eat with the kids; my union rep told us absolutely not to as we're entitled to a break.

feralgirl - you talk utter complete sense. totally agree.

gawky - a few pages before your comment i said teachers are human and make mistakes - of course they do and very rarely there are teachers who do their job to the letter and no more - but what is wrong with that??!!! There are many jobs where people do their work to the letter and they don't get accused of being lazy etc etc...Most teachers go to the nth degree for their students - most give up time for trips etc for example last half term i went in to assist year 11 with their coursework for 2 days and this week my DH is going in to assist year 12 and 13 on two days - yesterday he went in with my eldest DS to fix tables and glue instruments back together....most teachers i know do all of this in addition to the daily stuff

btw we NEVER get lunchtimes

Christmas term - rehearsals for concert

Spring Term - coursework help for year 11/12/13

Summer term - rehearsals for chamber concert/tours/year group performances

Riven - childminders and nurseries ARE expected to do it - the EYFS covers all that

Hmm. Actually as a former teacher I mostly agree with Mary Bousted. Whilst Justine's comment holds water that it is hard to meet a parent who does not claim to be concerned about their child's welfare, in practise there are far, far more who are not prepared to compromise their own well-being or lifestyle by standing up to their children and disciplining them properly, and prefer instead to blame teaching staff for their children's problems. Children SHOULD know how to get dressed and wipe their own bottoms by the age of 4, and also (barring any recognised problems) be able to speak clearly and wait their turn by then. They may not make a very good job of it, but it's unreasonable to teach them how to do these things, and to expect them to be aiming towards independence in personal hygiene in these things.