waldorf steiner

[heninthemidden]

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

"something very rare these days"

You obviously feel your children are capable of something normal children aren't.

That comment of Caty's is, sadly, typical of the attitude that prevails in Steiner schools.

The devotees are so up their own arses they refuse to acknowledge that any good can come from a child being in the state system - or from a non-anthro family.

This attitude also applies to creativity, imagination and manual dexterity - but interestingly I never heard anyone claim intellectual superiority for Steiner children - people boast about their DC's lack of interest and aptitude for reading and lathe, for example.

Curiouser and curiouser. Why does thecaty think it's rare for children to be good listeners these days?
It's great that most of us read to our children even in this media-saturated 21st century and even tell them stories too. We shouldn't feel guilty if it isn't every night. I'm glad thecaty's children like her stories. But I suspect their ability to listen has little to do with their education.
Can someone tell me why they chose a Steiner school? Is it something to do with rejecting the alternatives? Or is it a more positive choice? What sort of education do they believe they're getting?
This word 'normal' is ringing alarm bells.

My guess would be that TheCaty sends her DC to a Steiner school, and is feeling very defensive about criticism of the system. She probably also believes the Steiner school propaganda which is that their way is the best possible way to educate children and all other schools (and parents) are failing their children by teaching them to read too early and damaging them in the process, and by allowing them to come into contact with all the evils of the outside world.

Whereas those of us outside that system know that our children are also treated as individuals, encouraged to be creative and imaginative etc.

I chose Steiner education for my kids because I passionately believe that children should be in play based learning till they're 6. I thought that this was particularly important for my ds.

I really liked the early focus on modern languages, art, craft and music. I liked that literacy was taught with a great focus on language and story telling. I thought the maths curriculum was fantastic with its focus on basic skills and the development of mathematical ability through practical application. The Steiner curriculum is interdisciplinary and coherent - they can do beautiful art in maths lessons, they use music to learn spelling. It's so imaginative and the possibilities seemed enormous.

I liked the slower pace and the emphasis on 'doing things' to learn.

However, any curriculum is only as good as the people delivering it. The school was under funded and under resourced and we discovered that in time the whole system was underpinned by these barmy beliefs. Even if tachers weren't anthroposophists they still had a lot of time for it and anthroposophy (as these threads vociferously demonstrate) is a leedle beet bonkers

It was a big wrench to leave state education and we are happy to be back. Despite the many flaws in the national curriculum dc's are happy and engaged. What more can you ask for?

Anyone can write a prospectus and project a vision of wonderful educational experience. Writing a curriculum wouldn't even be so hard. The tricky bit is delivering it to actual children and this is where it all fell down for us.

I'm a professional writer (and hence read copiously and analytically for research) and have an MA in English from Oxbridge. My grandmother taught me to read before I went to school.

thecaty - filigree said that two days ago.

You really do seem to have a problem with English comprehension.

Are you still not saying when you started to read? Not early, I presume. Perhaps late readers have problems in fluency in adulthood, contrary to ecokiwi said

Just re-read my last post - should read '...aptitude for reading and maths,' of course, don't think there's such a subject as 'lathe' even in Steiner schools - although they probably use them in the 'building' part of the curriculum.

I (initially) chose Waldorf Steiner nursery for DD, because she was a very sensitive child who was slightly behind in gross motor skills. She was scared of other children and couldn't deal with their snatching, pushing, etc.

Steiner schools present themselves purely as a gentle, art-based pedagogy. I thought that would be great for DD to develop in her own time.

Then I learned about the nutty beliefs Like, how they think education is a means to facilitate reincarnation of the soul into DD's little body, the morning prayer where little kids are expected to drone about "the spirit of God" and "the spirit that lives in me" etc etc. Needless to say, I withdrew DD's application right away.

I'm a lifelong atheist/agnostic and the thought of these sing-song voiced, dreamy eyed loons filling DD's head with reincarnation/spirit world nonsense fills me with great anger.

thecaty You sound very much like where I was 6 months ago. I was blind to the bad side of the 'community' and believed everything that was said to me.

I could go into my full story and seriously some of it would make your hair stand on end. I have experienced (not always first hand) the health and safety issues, the bullying, the lack of support, the shunning of any parent who chooses to leave, the cover ups after cover ups. In fact it was the latest cover up which was the last straw for my family and this finally led me to accept that my child is not learning at all and we don't belong there.

In short, it has taken me a long time to realise that the outside world is actually OK and that mainstream education has a lot more to offer than steiner ever has done.

So thecaty my point to the above is - please try to look beyond the wafer thin veneer and you might just see what we can. The sad thing in all of this is that I know I could see it all when I was reading the posts from last year but chose to ignore it! If only.....

I am sorry I will not take this! you are far to intelligent for me. yes you... all you critics. I am happy for you to think that yet another long term Steiner Waldorf supporter did not anwer your questions!
You talk amongst yourselfs.
adieu
with love

disenchantedgnomie:
Sadly, it sounds to me like you're in some kind of cult. Your mention of an 'outside world' is as chilling as anything else I've read on this thread.
Still I haven't heard anything about Steiner education positive enough to justify this kind of suffering.
Good luck to you and your family. I'm sure you'll be fine, there are lots of great schools out there.
We all do these things for the best reasons and sometimes make mistakes but that's OK, you're not alone.

An odd thread to find on mumsnet but it's important mothers have the chance to talk in this way. I go away concerned and thoughtful.

Well, I was going to slip away but I see thecaty has had a sort of fit! Perhaps a fur ball?
disenchantedgnomie: humour's the best cure for sadness. Take heart from that thought.

I find these steiner threads incredibly addictive- I lurk on all of them!
I always loved the sound of steiner- slightly hippy, gentle and creative was how I imagined them. I had some freinds when I was a teenager who were at steiner and to be fair they seemed really nice and together. The one I knew best went to cambridge so it can't have completely educationally held him back.
However, reading these threads I am utterly stunned. I'm also a complete athiest and far too rational to be a hippy(much as I love festivals!). I can't understand why this all isn't better known. I mean it all just sounds like a joke, gnomes,demons etc!
Surely this needs a documentary (although perhaps they wouldn't allow that due to demons)?!

What I notice about Steiner threads on MN is that I don't tend to recognise many names on them - there are a couple of posters I know on here, but mainly it seems to be either namechangers or posters who have only registered to discuss this topic.

I have loads to say about Steiner and 20+ years experience of it - I was Steiner educated, and my DD has attended a Steiner KG. I'm no anthroposophist, in fact I think it is frankly a load of bolleaux, and I feel confident that I have the knowledge and experience to take from the school what suits our family/lifestyle and disregard the rest.

However I am wary of getting into a discussion about it here these days, because I just don't know who I am talking to. I'd quite like to share experiences, stories, positives, complaints, advice and so on with other parents. But I just don't know that that is what I'd be doing - I don't really want to get drawn into a debate with people who are out to trip me up, or 'save' me, or take my comments and use them to further their own agenda.

Anyway... just my own personal feelings.

ra29 - yes, it sounds like there is much of interest, of potential benefit in the educational values, if that could be separated from the antroposophism.....

Goodness Totalchaos! Is that Swedish?

"I am happy for you to think that yet another long term Steiner Waldorf supporter did not answer your questions!"

Err... What questions?

Fwiw, the term is anthroposophy (pedant).

I'm embarrassed to admit that I've returned. I am still grossly insulted, intellectually, by most of these posts.

But I must respond to AnarchyAunt.

Yes! I think there are so many important and interesting points to make and issues to discuss within the context of the steiner education methodology and its implementation. I am so bored with the 'anthroposophy is weird, all anthroposophists are nutters, ergo the steiner education method is invalid' argument.

One of the things I'm concerned about is that the cost of running a really solid school seems so very prohibitive in the start-up phase, that cost cutting is inevitable, and that new schools can't pay enough salary for the really special people who can hold it all together. Some of the people with gripes here appear to be coming out of such situations.

I don't know what else to do other than petition my local representative for state sponsorship of Steiner-inspired schools, like the Hereford Academy, so that the school has solid enough foundation to let the Steiner curriculum run, like some continental countries. Perhaps an infusion of non-Steiner trained staff into the mix as well would dilute a little of the dreaminess that seems to appear in some schools.

Zazizoma, I too would be embarrassed to come back to this thread stating you're 'grossly insulted intellectually' by the mothers who have had bad experiences in Steiner schools.

Are you intellectually insulted by all bad experienes in Steiner schools? There are many, or are you using the default position of using offense as a political weapon in order to get a free alternative education for your children?

Your idea of using non-Steiner trained staff to dilute a little of the dreaminess is a valid point but naive, the whole point of Steiner education is to propagate anthroposophy through children and their parents. It is the elephant in the room, it isn't going to go away however many silk scarves you may drape over it's rather large pernicious miserable arse.

I am very concerned you are asking the state to fund Rudolf Steiner?s mystical woo gained from his clairvoyant ramblings. Steiner Waldorf education (anthroposophy) exists to perform the 'sacred task' in helping each child?s soul and spirit incarnate in the world.

zazizoma - re "I am so bored with the 'anthroposophy is weird, all anthroposophists are nutters, ergo the steiner education method is invalid' argument"

Perhaps you would be less bored if you really understood the argument.

I'm not saying "steiner education method is invalid". I am saying there is a hidden agenda behind it and no way I am leaving my impressionable toddler with those nutcases who will fill her head with nonsense about spirits, etc.

Do you see the difference?

No matter how brilliant the teaching method, I would never send DD to a Jehovah's Witness school, for example. Or a Muslim madrasa.

Especially if they never even told me they were all JVs or fundamentalist Muslims.

I have re-opened this thread and re-read some of the messages. Am I the only one who finds the book list posted by:

By TheRationalist Wed 11-Mar-09 10:01:43

Am I the only one who can hear Wagner's Valkyries riding??? Bit of Aryan stuff going on there or what..

I simply don't believe that any debate about a hidden agenda in the Steiner methodology is relevant. I do believe the method can and should be judged on its merits. I do believe that a family can enjoy the benefits of a full Steiner curriculum without being converted, intentionally or unintentionally, to anthrowhatever.

I am still floored by most posters' insistence on being insulting. It's the tone. If I disagree with you, I must be an idiot who doesn't understand or hopelessly naive and in need of 'enlightenment' such that I will come to your way of thinking.

I'm obviously in the wrong place and sorry for intruding.

Is it just me or did zazizoma and thecaty both use the same unusual sign off - adieu.

Is this a steiner thing?

Or could there be another explanation?