waldorf steiner

[heninthemidden]

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

There are definitely a couple of people I know who have gone through the steiner degree, yet were in a position to be vunerable to the great claims made. I doubt these are the only ones, so actually there are probably two types of Steiner teachers...the vunerable type for whom anthroposophy is a delusional comfort blanket.
And the fascist, who fully understands what they are doing, such as the hideous so-called-teacher, that Minsmum was so unfortunate to have to have encountered.

isenhart7 (morning ladies) are you saying that faith in modern science is a belief structure?! Are we going to start talking about some chap called Darwin and his wierd whacky ideas about evolution?!

I would have said it was placing a trust in imperical research meself.

Back again!

lol at modern science being 'a belief' or a 'faith'. This was the bolleaux I heard at Steiner School's all the time. Of course mankind's understanding of life the universe and everything will one day move beyond 'modern science' but if you think it's going to vindicate anthroposophy...

Science is the current pinnacle of all philosphical, religious and scientific thought. It's the best explanation we have at the moment. To step back from it in a slightly superior way and suggest that there are 'other ways' of seeing the world and not offer any serious altenative thesis is mind-numbingly STUPID.

To base an education system on an esoteric belief system, judge children by its unique criteria and not have the moral conviction or courage to fully inform parents that this is what you are doing is indefensible. This is why people are SO angry.

When I joined a Steiner school no one explained to me that dc's teachers might literally believe that they were guiding my dc's through various incarnations. When I heard the word incarnation I thought it was a metaphor ffs.

Every Steiner School should have above it's door "You are now entering a place where we cannot agree on what reality is" because the reasonable assumption in today's world is that most schools do accept maintsream views on psycology, child development, special needs etc unless they explicitly state otherwise.

"unless they explicitly state otherwise."

I think it's just that that makes the whole Steiner phenomenon so machiavellian in the way they "sell" the product to their chosen target audience.

So this is how you're amusing yourself?

We found steiner kindergarten a wonderful place for our children. It was very calm, nurturing and warm environment with gentle activities and plenty of outdoor time enjoying the local woods. It was such a relief after the horrible playgroup environment of plastic kitsch toys, hannah montana and Ben 10 fighting activities etc etc. Felt like young children could get away from commericalism for a short while and be young children instead of mini adults for a while. They were taught to respect each other and played in very different ways. Our daughter?s behaviour improved dramatically and for the better.

There was very little anthrosophy and incarnation mentioned and the ceremonies that did happen felt very innocent and sweet (the spiral christmas one was charmingly innocent and not sinister at all - the children loved it).
However, money and concerns that the philosophy would start to play a larger role in the educational process meant that we switched at age 5 to the local primary school. The transition was fine and not held back at all by the difference in focus (no reading or writing).

There are a lot of awful stories that come out of steiner education and not in a position to comment about that side. However, we witnessed none of the negative in the kindergarten level and would advise people to see the separate steiner kindergartens in a different light to the schools. It is not all fairies and reincarnation

crunch stalker!! please don't give me away!!!

lemontart I think it's lovely that you and yours had very positive experience of kindergarten. The "very little anthroposophy and reincarnation" aspect is the spectre at the feast for many. Why aren't they open about it? It underpins everything they do, even at kindergarten level. Their philosophy was underpinning your DCs early years even if it wasn't highlighted to you as parent (in itself worrying). But, please, I think a success story is a success story wherever it comes from

You cannot escape the power of the Crunch!

I thought Steiner threads were being deleted these days? (This has probably been explained earlier in the thread).

The secondary school I worked at were not in favour of Steiner: We occasionally got ex-Steiner school kids coming in. Now this may just have been one particular bad-apple of a school, but they were invariably very damaged children and had been through some highly questionably aggressive treatment.

I think we've been goading the lawyers, they don't seem to have responded! isenhart7 has gone back to steiner central for further instructions!

You bullies

What is the Steiner position on CRB checking teachers? Is that not a legal requirement for adults who spend a significant part of their work with children (guessing at criteria)?

As I said, I was concerned enough about reports of Steiner schools to choose the local primary school after kindy. However, I disagree that there was something hidden or sinister behind the kindergarten?s workings. I think it was not highlighted because it was not an issue rather than it was a big dirty secret kept away from parents. I totally understand and believe that many of the horrific tales show that the story is very different in many of the schools, just question whether all the separate kindergartens are as bad as some suggest.

The seven yr development cycle and the interpretation of imagery was explained to us as was why they did certain things in the way they chose - like the repetition of stories, the wet on wet painting and gentle introduction to different colours through the seasons. I never felt that anything was hidden or had secret and worrying depths to them. It was all about enjoying nature, the outdoors, baking bread, growing leeks and potatoes, playing with gorgeous high quality, hand crafted wooden toys etc. etc.

I am not here trying to sell steiner schools, lol - we didn?t choose one! However, I just want to let anyone with no experience of steiner at all, to see that there are people out there with genuinely positive things to say rather than just the Steiner brochure speak. I am only commenting on the kindergartens as I have no experience of Steiner schools. I am not naive and did not drop my child off oblivious. I was a sceptical ex-teacher (secondary school) and monitored it very carefully. I would criticise almost nothing that we experienced and witnessed.

Sorry to go on about it. Just wanted to add a positive voice from a non steiner educated, no axe to grind, no view to justify/defend, person who has experience Steiner Kindergarten firsthand.

Lemontart glad to hear you had a positive experience I think that's all everyone wants really.

thanks crunchy

not trying to belittle or challenge those who have had horrific experiences. My heart goes out to mimsmum and all the others who have had such awful experiences

I am not naive and did not drop my child off oblivious

sorry lemontart, hope I didn't sound like that's what I was saying. that would be horrible

oh, God, no tattifer!! Absolutely not what I meant at all. Sorry if it looked that way from my post!

I was not referring to anybody other than myself

I was trying to explain (and possibly sounding a little defensive) that I don?t think my positive attitude towards the kindergarten my DD went to was because I could not see the problems there IYSWIM out of naivety or inability to spot any dodgy signs. I genuinely think that there really was (and is) nothing sinister or hidden there It is hard to spot signs sometimes and it is totally understandable that we trust the people in charge of our children?s childcare - or why would we be sending them there? I didn?t mean to suggest that those parents who unwittingly send their children somewhere that turns out to be dramatically different to original impressions are naive or oblivious! Really sorry if I upset you over that. I was not very tactful and didn?t express myself at all well.

Unfortunately, justaboutback, from the ever growing testamonials and sharing of experiences, I think you could be right.

Our kindy was not connected directly with a specific Steiner school so perhaps a little different from those that might be linked with schools? I still maintain that it this particular one was wholesome and innocent but agree that what happens beyond Kindy years is a totally different matter. As a result, I have a great deal of sympathy for those who found Steiner education to be so traumatic.

Quire right tattifer-wilderduck made no claim to having any faith or belief in peer-reviewed empirical research. She, in fact, claimed that she "knows that the strides being made through this method are more likely to enlighten us, in that important, sadly threatened post-medieval sense, than any 'imaginative' or 'spiritual' hypothesis."

Hi Lemontart I think your good experience illustrates that there are good things about Steiner - which most of us here probably agree about, because, after all, we chose the schools for what we thought we were going to get.
I still maintain that if the closeness to nature, outdoor play, growing veg, singing, craft, early language etc etc were all there without the spectre of anthroposophy...Steiner Waldorf don't have the monopoly on all those things either.

But my question to you would be, if you knew/had known that all those things like the colourful paints, singing songs, the gnomey garden, particular stories and puppet shows, advent spiral and all, had some occult spiritual meaning, or that your child was encouraged, say , to use their right hand, when they're left handed, because the teacher gently explained that it's "better" for the child, it's "right" to try and change them, ( rather than the fact that left handedness signifies karmic weakness) would you have done things any differently? Were the reasons the teachers gave, the true spiritual anthroposophical ones or were they watered down?
I'm not asking in any way other than I'm interested as to whether it would have made you do things differently.

I think the teacher's versions, like pro websites, don't tell it as it is.

good question northernrefugee

going to give it some thought before rushing an answer!

It is not an easy topic is it!
I have spent the past hour and a half trying to write a reply and repeatedly deleting it.
I would like to think that if anything sinister or questionable had occured (like the LH thing) I would have picked it up and dealt with it properly.

The irony that as long as the more eccentric philosphical ideas remained hidden everything was ok, but if they were open and honest about their beliefs I might have struggled, is not lost on me.

If I had truly known as much about it as I do now retrospectively, I am not sure how I would feel. I am sure I would have been more wary and possibly not have considered even trialling the group. So, in a way, I am glad I didn?t have as much information clouding my opinion then as it was a wonderful experience and one that really helped my daughter blossom. At the same time, I am so relieved that I did look into it further and make a more informed choice when choosing an appropriate primary school. Very relieved we did not stretch the family budget and consider the local Steiner school after kindergarten!

Gosh Lemon, that's such an open and honest answer
Thankyou for giving it so much thought.
I think that's exactly how I would have replied btw.
We hd a couple of reasonably new teachers, "unseasoned" I could say, who occasionally dropped clangers, and a look of horror passed over others faces before they compased themselves; at the time , I'd thought the horror was becaause what had been said was a bit loopy or downright crazy. I subsequently realised of course, it was because too many cats were being released from the anthroposopphical bag.