Independent School. Can they do this to my 8 year old? any info?

[Mumski]

I'm in shock and could do with some advice. We soul searched and moved our D's last year when aged 6 & 7 from our local state primary school. It was open plan, a number of disruptive children etc etc. My eldest was really struggling to learn anything and was way behind as she finds it difficult to concentrate. Both past the entrance exam for the Prep of an independent school and started last Sept. All the feed back we have had for eldest has been positive. We are aware she still isn't up to speed - but she hasn't been there two terms yet. This week we were called into see the Headmaster who bluntly told us we should start looking for another school for our daughter as they didn't think she was upto going into year 4. We have always given lots of extra support to her (3/4 hour before school every morning just to try and get her up to speed)- but where is their comittment? Can they do this? Don't Independent schools have to have codes of conduct. We are devistated. We've negotiated we have until the summer to see what can be done but we feel they have already made their mind up. Sorry to go on but v.v. upset.

To be honest they CAN do this - although I agree with you completely that they SHOULDN'T. As to the matter of "codes of conduct" it would be worth reading through their prospectus and any other paperwork they have sent you in the past. (My son's prep school had a sort of parent/school contract which set out what the school expected from the child/family, and what we could expect from them.) Also check whether the school is a member of any associations (ISIS or the other one...) and if so approach them and ask what their take on the matter is.
I know it is hard, but the problem is I don't think that they are obliged to take any child in particular - and whilst they shouldn't ask a child to leave without really good cause, it could be that in their philosophy "struggling with the academic work" counts as a really good cause. I know the school my son went to made things REALLY difficult for him as soon as it was discovered that he had SEN - so much so that it was clear they were doing all they could to get me to withdraw him without their actually having to come out and say it to me. So I obliged, and I now Home Educate my son, and he has never been happier. It meant giving up my career - but in our particular circumstances it seemed like the best thing I could do for him. And it seems to be working out really well.
But as I say, when push comes to shove I think that independent schools can do pretty much what they like - the only outside body who might be interested are any organisations that the school might belong to.

blimey - that's outrageous. I have a feeling that private schools can do this, but I don't know - the independent schools council may be able to help if the school is accredited. their website is www.isis.org.uk

Even if it is legal though, their behaviour is not on. Don't know what to suggest really - I hope someone else can help.

Sorry to hear this Mumski- but yes they can..... On a brighter note- maybe she would be better in a more caring school. When we were looking at private schools for our square peg of a son I learned that I needed to look at ones who weren't boasting about their results (although strangely enough he's quite academic- just a square peg). As it is he has quite complex special needs and there isn't a private school in the land that would take him, (and we may well home ed Oakmaiden!) but there are some nice schools out there which are willing to treat each child as an individual.

If you live anywhere in the Bromley area or the Plymouth area I can tell you of two very caring schools (which also get good results- it's just they're interested in the child's welfare as well).

Have they not offered for her to carry on in year 3 in September? This happens at our independent school. We have 8 year olds in year 2 and 7 year olds in year 3 according to their abilities.

Why not discuss this with the Head?

It's sad but true. At the top of every league table are these independent schools who boast 95-100% pass rates at key stages 2,3,4 and 5. And how do they manage this amazing feat? Well, you have just found out to your cost, sadly. You do have my sympathy. With the Govt putting more pressure on schools, both private and state, to reach targets at ALL key stages, schools are increasingly comptetitive - and therefore ruthless at times.
If you're able to look around for another state school, refer to the league tables that compare like with like, not just all academic results in the city/county. In toher words, it compares schools with kids from the same socio-economic backgrounds and environments. Children are tested on entry to school and results logged, and then at the end of key stage 2. School that perform the best are those who show the biggest influence on kids during the time they are at school - this is called "value-added". Independent schools overcome this by testing as an entrance requirement so they can cream off the best to begin with and then monitor progress. If the pupils aren't up to scratch, they can ask them to leave. This is the "privilege" they have over state schools. Not all private schools are like this, but IME, a fair few. As the posting below says, if you still want a private school, look at its pastoral care rather than its academic results first.

Jimjams - Home Ed is great fun! I sem to recall from other threads that your ds has ASD? Have you read "Paths are made by Walking - Home educating our autistic spectrum children"? It is worth a read. There is a home ed/ special needs e-mail list too, which can be very supportive (although I have left it as I was on so many lists i was receiving about 500 mails a day! TOO MANY!)

Hi Oakmaiden- I found Paths- brilliant! very inspiring. It was good for dh to read as he doesn't get time to read my email lists. It's made him very pro HE- I think the nightmare school stories in there just confirmed his worst fears. It's also allowed me to see HE as a positive option, rather than just a last resort. It has also given me the confidence to respond to the so-called pros. Such as DS1's portage worker who said "he has to go to school to socialise" I choked and said "have you seen him in a room of 30 children? The last thing he does is socialise he just shuts down!".

I am on HE-Special- very helpful list. I was on muddlepuddle for a while as well, but had to stop that - too many emails. Now it's HE-Special and Aut-UK and chatters occasionally- they keep me busy- I have 179 unread in my inbox at the mo- and I last went through them all on Friday. Mass delete may be coming up. DH tends to work a lot of evenings- guess what I d with my spare time when the boys are in bed- ahh well it beats housework!

Sorry Mumski- hijacked your thread.....

Mumski, really sorry to hear this. It must have been most upsetting, but, as others have said, the independent sector makes up its own rules on admissions and continuation policy a lot of the time.

As we failed to get a place at our good local state primary we are sending ds to a small local prep school. One of the reasons we specifically chose this one (there are several others nearby and a couple of them are highly academic) is that it has a good pastoral ethos, a non-academic selection policy and several children with SEN. We want the small class sizes and the extra music, drama and sport that this school offers but we also want ds to be educated in a mixed-ability environment.
The school that is rejecting your daughter is not considering either her needs or best educational practice for the other children at the school, and although it must be such a distressing time for you, I think as a family you need to find her somewhere else. Jimjams has mentioned Bromley - if by any chance you are in SE London (Greenwich/Lewisham) I know of two good prep schools who look at the wider picture and give good support to ALL their pupils.
Do shop the School to the ISC, though - as ks says, this overtly unfair treatment of families is frowned on by them.

Dear Mumski ... this is awful for you ... I am really sorry you are so upset.
I worked in two independent prep schools and both were very committed to children who struggled academically ... especially at Years 3 and 4. In the last school I worked at if a child didn't do well in the entrance test it was then that the head would suggest that the parents looked elsewhere but if we accepted a child we would be committed to them. Usually it was at the end of year 6 that the head would suggest the parents move the child to senior school before he or she went on into Year 7 as the pressures of Common Entrance at the end of year 8 can be very great for children who are not 'academic'.
To be honest I think if they are asking you to move your daughter this early on then they are obviously not committed to her education and so therefore I agree with the others in that you should look for a school that has a more caring pastoral outlook ... and one that has clear SEN policies where you know that your little girl has the support she needs.
We also used to suggest, if a child was really struggling that he or she repeated a year and although initially that was hard for the family concerned (stigma attached etc) it usually worked out really well as the child would start the new year on a good footing and at the age of 7 or 8 would feel that they had 'one up' on the others as they had done it all before.
I know this is hard but try and look at it this way - if they are not going to show committment to her then THEY are not right for HER (instead of the other way around) and you should look elsewhere...
If you are anywhere near Reigate in Surrey then I can suggest the schools that I worked at .....
HTH a bit and hope you find a way through ...
love GXXX

mumski, I am really sorry that this is happening to you and agree with Ghosty and others who say that it is the school being not right for your daughter rather than visa versa. It look like a reflection of the school's narrow, results-geared stance and I bet you are not the only parent there to have had this type of 'talk'

I have no experience of private schools but just wanted to add this: don't think your dd will always necessarily be behind speed. It's taken my son nearly 5 terms to show good results in class. He changed schools when he was 7 years and his new school (a church one) expected higher standards of behaviour and academic achievement. The academic side wasn't the main problem with us, but my son found it really difficult to get his behaviour under control - he finds it hard to concentrate and work peacefully in groups and had to work alone in class, and that affected his academic achievement of course. After two terms his behaviour report was still so negative. The head told us this was unacceptable and he was disrupting teaching, but also said they wouldn't give up on him.

We have made progress. It has been slow and gradual and the school has been committed to helping him. He is now working in groups far more, he seems to be better behaved more often and I can see the bad times are getting less. So don't accept this school's view of your daughter's ability or behaviour. It sounds like they're fixed on it and are washing their hands of it. Have they actually worked with her on her lack of concentration?

I hope you find a school that recognises the potential in your daughter - she sounds fantastic if she is happily working an extra 3/4 of an hour with you every morning before school. She's a star for putting in that effort and I hope you find a school that rewards it.

Isn't it shocking that a school can write off a child before she's even had a proper chance at studying. What a disgrace. This is supposed to be an educational establishment, full of understanding and knowledgeble teachers...and they can't even help an 8 year old!! Mumski, I would be very tempted to write lots of stinking letters and embarass the hell out of them.

meanwhile there must be other more helpful schools in the area but I can see that it must be very disruptive for your daughter to keep having to change friends and teachers etc. That's not going to help her education either, but good luck trying.

Thankyou everyone who replied. I was so overwhelmed how helpful and concerned you all were. I've calmed down now. We also went to see the headmaster again yesterday to reiterate our concerns and the sound of 'back peddling'was deafening. I think they thought we would just cave in and agree to their request. But spured on by you lot we have insisted we are given time to try and get her up to speed ie until the summer.
They have also now offered for her to repeat year 3. Something they were not even considering last Friday. Has any one experience of their children repeating a year. What are the problems etc. I think the worst thing will be she will be in the same year as her sister - but different classes. Any comments? And a BIG thanks to everyone who replied. Mumski

Mumski - no direct experience of this, but just a thought - if your DD repeats a year and it still doesn't work out at that school, you will then either have to find another school that would be happy to take her a year behind her chronological age group, or she will have to jump a year to rejoin her age group, if you see what I mean. If the school are considering letting her repeat a year, you may want to get their reassurance that she will then be able to stay at the school, no matter what, as moving schools when she is out of her year group could be difficult.

Whilst I agree that it is sad that the children cannot be educated together I also wonder why anyone would want their child to persist in a school which was quite obviously unsuited to her personality and abilities.We have our eldest ds in an academic independent schoolin year 4 and the pace is quite steep,our second ds started in reception last year he struggled quite frankly,the school were loving and caring towards him but our knowledge of the type of child taht was thriving in years4 upwards made us see that our little ds was soon going to conclude (as a result of struggling to keep up ) that he was not academic,we did not want this for him as he is just as bright as his brother just different.After discussion with the school we moved him last term to another indep school with a less academic ethos ,he loves it and is making good academic progress,with hindsight I can see that it was just the wrong compost for the wrong plant.
I also know of several parents who have had this kind of warning from the school ,some have taken the school's advice and moved the children others have stuck to their guns and stayed almost without exception the school has been proved right nad the child has not thrived.Would you rather they were not honest and left you child to struggle in an enviroment unsuited to them,surely the whole point of educating your child in the iondependent sector is to enable you to choosethe right educationla enviroment for the child.Far better to mmove them now than have 6 years of being bottom of the class and all that that entails.Incidentally our school has very good special needs support adn is caring but they are honest with you.

Sorry just another point the school is not writing off your daughter surely just saying taht this is not the right enviroment for her.surely they are being caring in being honest with you?

You have made some good points Philly but I have to say that my experience (and that of friends) is that private/inedependent schools make decisions for their own benefit way and above beyond those for the child.
Most operate in the interests of business rather than education.