groaning under the weight of private school fees!

[pearso]

Hello,
I've got one child at private school, the other still at state primary for another year and we're dreading the decision next year about what to do. It's very unlikely we'll be able to afford a second set of school fees. Is anyone else in a similar situation? I'd love to hear from you if you are.... I'm also writing about it in my column for the Evening Standard so wouldn't use names but would love to hear what people think, especially in London and about any experiences good or bad.
thanks!

Not just me then...

Each peachpear - I'm not saying the situation is perfect, by no means, but the fact is that large sums of public money are being ploughed into state education over the next few years.Which is a good thing. No education system is ever going to be perfect, but I think state education has moved a long way, certainly from the days when the vast majority of (often bright) kids were written off as not being suited to academic study through the dreadful 11+ system etc. I just feel it needs pointing out, as so much crap has been spouted on here - eg that there is 'no' funding going into state education, that state schools don't report A and B grades, that state school teachers only care about getting kids to a grade c etc. Utter tripe!

Incidentally I have a foot in both camps with a child in private and one in state. The private school has some beautiful buildings (though these tend to be offices, halls and reception areas - there are some fairly crappy mobile classrooms round the back ). The classes are smaller. The social mix is narrower. The school doesn't carer for below average students. The state school is shabbier, larger and of course there is the full ability range, though like most state schools today, the pupils are set by ability so the top sets are (according to my ds who has been in private too) better than at private as there are some hugely bright kids who he feels have more open minds. As far as teaching is concerned, I wouldnt say there's a massive difference, though where I've come across mediocre teaching, it has been tolerated far more in the private school, probably because it's generally an easier option job wise, and teachers can get away with being less than great.

I suspect those of us with a foot in both camps have a good understanding of the fact that this is not a black and white issue - it's very complex, and it is utterly ridiculous to say that one sector is 'better' than the other.

"'State schools tend to publish their 5 A-C results so really only care about getting their pupils to a safe C-grade' -

this has to be one of the stupidest comments in the whole thread!!"

Violet: this is not a stupid comment. It describes DD's school to a T. I know: I asked about extra tuition to improve her from a middling grade and was told no. However, there were extra classes for borderline-C students because there was Govt funding.

Regarding the OP, it's not always possible to do the same for one as you do for another. When we sent DD1 to an independent school we weren't basing that decision on her and a future child we might or might not have. As it happened we did have another, DH had retired early by then and there was no way we could afford to go private for DD2 - no breast-beating, just 'it's not possible' - so into the state system she went and did just fine.

So will yours (assuming a reasonable state school is in your area - but even if not - for some of us there just is no other choice and They. Will. Survive.)

Can you link to the Times article?

iamdisappointed - that doesn't make it true for state education! I wouldn't be happy in your situation, but to make a sweeping comment like scienceteacher did is stupid.

Do private schools offer extra free tuitition for all students who want to raise their grades from a C or a B? They didn't in my day.

If they charge for it, then that is no different from the state system, where you can always engage a tutor.

Sitting down with every B/C pupil and working with them until they raised their grade would test the resources of even a well funded private school.

My dd's state school is always happy to offer extension work for a student who wants to do more, but an actual tutor does seem a lot to ask for if you are not prepared to pay for it. Frankly, a lot of children who are capable of getting a B or a C are also able to use the ordinary teaching, combined with extra work at home, to raise their own marks. That doesn't mean the school is uncaring.

"State schools tend to publish their 5 A-C results so really only care about getting their pupils to a safe C-grade"
I'm afraid that this was partially true for DS2's school. It had limited financial resources and teacher shortages in important areas such as Maths and Science. The school cared but was not in a position to do any more than ensure that pupils able to get 5 C Grades did so.

Cory: I agree that there is not much mileage in getting a child from, say, a safe-B to high-B but the school sent a leter home saying that there would be extra classes to help those pupils who were on the grade borderline. When I enquired, it turned out to mean only the C/D borderline.

Of course it is ridiculous to state one sector is better than the other- there are excellent and appalling schools in both IME.
Dreyfus the problem is that for some people there really isn't the choice of a 'reasonable' state school in their area- either you pay to avoid that issue, or, if you are like most people, you have to lump it. Some children will survive, others do not, and are severely damaged by their experiences.

You can hardly blame state schools for chasing the elusive C grade for as many children as possible- this is the government benchmark- funding really is critical on attaining this grade- for LEA services as well as for schools- if you're unhappy about it then lobby the government for a change in their funding formulae.

Sorry- last paragraph to Iamdisappointed et al....

Dd's state school is actually very good and caring, lots of support offered to all students, though falling short of special tuition except in special cases. Which IMO is not a bad idea. Children also need to know that part of the responsibility is theirs.

As a university teacher, I am increasingly concerned by the number of students who make it clear that they think it is my responsiblity to ensure that they get a First. If they don't, then I have failed in my job. They are genuinely surprised if I point out that not all students are meant to get top grades because that would make the grade system useless. Not to mention when I tell them that a large part of the responsibility for their success rests on them. Clearly, noone has ever told them this before. I see an awful lot of young people, particularly young people from rather good schools with supportive families, who fail to make the most of their time at uni, because they have always assumed that it is somebody else's job to ensure their success.

I can feel a rant coming on.

You also have to look very carefully at the statistics. A local comprehensive school may have 30% A-Cs, and the local private school nearer 99%. But the comprehensive school will have a significant number of children who for whatever reason couldn't get a C at GCSE if they tried for 50 years. There will be very few if any children in this category at the private school. (what this says about the link between poverty and educational achievement is another debate). Most of the 30% A-C would get their A-Cs wherever they go to school. So the comprehensive school might be a brilliant place with its 30%, because it may only have 20% of its intake as natural A-C pupils and they manage to get another 10% up to that level, and the private school with its 90% may be pretty average because actually 100% of its intake is natural A-Cs and they've let 10% slip. I hope this makes sense!

Seeker- we call it Value-added these days!

Cory: my full name is
I am disappointed in DD but also in her school for not nurturing her to achieve what she was capable of, because they had a philosophy of 'a C grade is all we really require'.

I think that schools should be funded on value-added, not raw scores.

I know - but I suspect that some people on this thread may not - and it's very easy just to look at the numbers. I didn't really think about it until I was actively choosing a secondary school!

x-posts (slow typer!)

Although a general sweeping statement is not my intention here, and please don't flame me for it....

We send our two to a faith school. It is not the one closest to our home or even the 1st 2nd or 3rd closest but it is the best one. It attracts a diverse social range and teaches my children a number of lessons not necessarily available in either public or state schools:

Values & morals we believe in as a family.
Acceptance of others.
To value others.
To believe that achievements are more important than background or money.

And most importantly to be nice to others and always to do their best.

The school does very well for all abilities and I'm sure I would have moved house if necessary to ensure they got a place.

Cory - I'm a former university teacher, and I fully support you in whatever rant you would like to embark upon!!

Can't clearly link it to the private-state thing though, Dottoressa. As far as I can see, it's a general society thing and a lot of it is parent driven. My child must not be allowed to fail at anything. I had an old university tutor who told us that everybody needs to fail at something in life for the sake of our personal development. Perhaps he really knew a thing or two.

Can't clearly link it to the private-state thing though, Dottoressa. As far as I can see, it's a general society thing and a lot of it is parent driven. "My child must not be allowed to fail at anything". I had an old university tutor who told us that everybody needs to fail at something in life for the sake of our personal development. Perhaps he really knew a thing or two.

cory - you sound just like a book I'm reading right now (raising respectful children in a disrepectful world) which when I first read it seemed to say we should let children FAIL, but then realised it meant we should LET children fail.

And it is linked to the state-private thing in a roundabout way. In private schools you are more likely to find parents who have, for whatever reason, analysed their child's potential/options and realised that the best way to succeed (not fail) is to put them into private school, where teachers pick up on that vibe and therefore spoon feed children, giving them lots of individual attention and generally not letting them fail at anything thus avoiding repercussions of the (well-meaning) parents.

FWIW I went to an academically fantastic independent school, was mollycoddled, looked after and spoonfed the whole way, got 3 A grades at A-level, a place at university etc etc etc but I learned how to learn at a further education college where the class was so big I couldn't get the support I was used to having at school, didn't work by myself and failed my first assignment. Suddenly it was up to me and it took a year of hard work for me to realise I could achieve things by myself. It was a shock to the system but it set me up better for university and life in general. I don't blame my school teachers at all for holding my hand and practically telling me what I needed to know because on paper I benefited.

I'm sure that doesn't just got for private schools. I saw the same thing in my sister, who was state educated, albeit at a grammar, (I got a scholarship, I got private education, she didn't, that was that) where my parents honestly did their best to help her but she wasn't allowed to fail at anything. My comprehensive educated brother, on the other hand, is much better at doing things for himself, because he learned at about the age of 11 that no-one was going to do anything extra for him at school because the school had a rather strange policy of minimal parental involvement. Make of that what you may...

I think that failure is very good for you-it spurs you on and you learn to deal with it. We have a very sad case locally, where a 19/20 year old has comitted suicide. He was a naturally bright student, went through the state system with a grammar school place and top university. In his first year he failed, his first taste of failure and he couldn't cope with it.
I don't think that people understand the term average-i.e.most people, if everyone was to get a first at university that would be the new average. If most people had an IQ of 120 that would be the new 100 and it would all have to be altered.
A teacher can teach but it does require some effort from the pupil!

Times article

Hmm I'm quite tempted by buying a school! Wonder what the OH would say if I put our life savings into one. And borrowed a lot of money. Reminds me of when I was about 17 and trying to get my father to buy me a car. I imagine it would start something like this:

"darling....may I have a school, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez?"