Taking DD out of school for holidays - been unauthorised.

[Bunch]

Me and DH have booked a 2 week holiday for next May. DD is in Year 4 and DS in Year R. DS headteacher has authorised his 10 days but DD's headteacher has not. We realise now that we should have had the school authorise it before we booked it but its too late. Apparently it is the week that they have their QCA tests (whatever they are). I know it is Sats time but not until Year 6 so I didn't think it would be a problem. What would everyone do?

Weirdly enough my dcs school does all the photographs, postcards, diary stuff after the 6 week summer holiday. That way EVERY child gets to share their experience of their diverse holidays and not just the one kid whose parents think it's ok not to be at school the week before the official holidays.

And I repeat I wouldn't want my kids going to any school where the kids wouldn't miss anything in a week that 'wouldn't be drip fed to them over the next couple of terms anyway.'

But that's the case in all primary schools. And we're graded outstanding and, Ahem, I'm a LMT so always being assessed. The Strategies are written that way. Have a look at them on line if you like. It will say something like week 3 autumn term subtraction... week 3 spring term subtraction etc.
Anyway, I am not suggesting all parents should go book their holidays in term time only that it in no way affects the attainment of those who do if they have an otherwise excellent attendance record.

Oh and no teacher can say anything about the week before the summer break (that you refer to) as certainly in every primary school I've ever worked in, very little, if any, work is done in those last 2 or 3 days.

myred, the OP is talking about May - before the half-term break.

I should say my dcs go to a private school. Yep, they do fun stuff, trips etc but they also work hard. If they miss a week they miss a lot and their teachers WOULD take the time to help them catch up. But then again the school has NO unauthorised absence - one of the many reasons I chose it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against all holidays during term time and I am a big, big fan of family holidays - even or especially when they're in a tent up the road. But it does make me cross when parents take their kids out of school just so they can go abroad for a cheap beach holiday for example when they could wait another couple of weeks and have a holiday in the official time.

There ARE 13 weeks holiday in the school year so it's stupid to say that it's necessary to take your kids out of school in order to have a familyholiday unless there are particular factors at work like a wedding that has been organised by other people or parents leave or whatever..

And I aslso get cross when there's just nothought for the teachers, school and other kids who are likely to be affected as well.

And the OP is talking about missing exam prep and exams which will be used for the individual teacher's and the school's target setting. They'll use them to measure progress and value added and set expected grades for the future. I wouldn't want my kid to be the only one to miss these and as a teacher it's a right PITA when you have to chase kids to get them to sit an exam that they've missed at a different time - not to mention the fact that it means they miss yet more class time.

My kids go independent too BTW. Just took issue with your veiled suggestion that if it was drip fed it was crap which was why I mentioned school and my grading.

I also know all about optional SATs as I'm also assessment co-ordinator so it's my job to track and target. They are just that though; a tool for the school to track and target. At primary level teacher assessment is just as accurate, if not more so. Therfore, if a child misses the optionals it is very easy for the teacher to insert a reasoned TA grade instead.

As I said, I'm not advocating it. Just pointing out that at primary level, the consequences do not have to be entirely negative.

therefore

Slug - you wrote "Samantha, what do parents who are teachers do? Do they take time out during term time to take their children on holiday because it's cheaper then? It really winds me up when people talk as if holidays abroad are some kind of 'right' to be enjoyed and sod the consequences to their children's education."

well I assume that parents who are teachers are able to get the school holidays off.

and I didn't mention anything about the cost or about going abroad or it being a right. I merely pointed out that many parents cannot take time off during the school holidays and other posters have confirmed that this is the case.

Blu - the link to the codes is the first one on this page I think. I can't open it to check on this laptop.

Bunch - if ds is still 4 the head really has no choice but to authorise as he's not of compulsory school age.

I work in school dealing with attendance and fwiw for children in primary I'd go, although I wouldn't in secondary. It sometimes seems to me that parents who take term time holidays are an easy target, rather than those, as someone said further down, who really take the piss with regard to late arrivals/late collections and every other Monday off because the parents can't be bothered to get out of bed.

I've done thistwice for skiing holidays when the children were no older than 9 years old. The head authorised itunwillingly but she did do it.

I wouldn't lie about it, though. Because I'm trying to teach my children not to lie and it sets a very bad example.

Just wanted to say that the thing about her being in the top group and therefore needing no catch up time is total rubbish - whatever group she is in, if a new concept is introduced that week she will miss the teaching of it.

Having said that, I teach and don't mind pupils being away on these sort of "once in a lifetime" trips. But I will not and do not provide work, OR extra catch up time once they are back, out with their normal level of support. 9 times out of 10 they can catch up anyway, and if the parents don't mind risking the tiny chance of them missing something absolutely crucial then I don't mind either.

Not suggesting that if 'it's drip fed then it's crap' but I do think if teachers themselves are saying it makes no difference if kids are taken out for a week then it's hardly surprising that parents feel like this!

Personally I rate my own teaching and the teaching my kids get more highly.

Don't think that writing off the week before summer holidays with videos etc is acceptable and where this happens I'm not surprised parents vote with their feet.

I agree with you that a week in a year of otherwise good attendance is unlikely to have a lasting impact on a child's overall attainment but I still think it is disruptive in the short-term and sends out a potentially very damaging message to the kids involved and the others in the class and their parents. If x can do it why can't I? If I can do it once a year why not twice? If they didn't miss much during this week then it won't matter if they miss next Tuesday. The principle is important. Teachers and schools need to say it's not acceptable to miss school without very good reason because otherwise they're saying the education they provide isn't that valuable.

I only put a video on once a year. Muppets Christmas Carol on the day of the Christmas party.
My final week (usually 4days)before summer is taken up with cleaning tables and cupboards. Then stacking tables one on top of the other so floors can be cleaned and polished over summer. Then taking all displays down and pulling @900 staples out the wall!
Then writing names on 270 excercise books(9lots of 30)
During this time the kids do word searches, find the magic number games, quizzes and book reviews.
TBH, I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar at my DCs independent school and it wouldn't bother me if it was. Again, it's just one week.

"I agree with you that a week in a year of otherwise good attendance is unlikely to have a lasting impact on a child's overall attainment"

Well there you go then. You agree it's not a problem too

"If I can do it once a year why not twice? If they didn't miss much during this week then it won't matter if they miss next Tuesday. The principle is important."

Do you like a glass of wine, fivecandles? If so, how do you know you might not want a whole bottle next time or even 3 or 4. Perhaps you are on the road to alcoholism?
Why would one holiday in term time lead to having time off here, there and everywhere?

"Teachers and schools need to say it's not acceptable to miss school without very good reason"

But who should decide whether it's a good reason? The school, the parents? Surely it should have input from both sides with a variety of things being taken into account.

"because otherwise they're saying the education they provide isn't that valuable"

I don't think that's so. I think it would be a recognition that there is more to life than school and that individuals count and their circumstances should be considered.

There are two issues surrounding people who take their children out of school during term times for school holidays.

You only get the chance to do it because there are many parents like myself who will not do it. If all 30 of a class of pupils were taking their holidays randomly when they felt like it throughout the school year, the classroom would soon descend into chaos and the school would have to stop it.

Why is it OK to take a child out of school for a holiday but not Ok for a parent to take their child out of school for their birthday treat/ a cheaper softplay area birthday party/to buy school shoes when the shops are quieter and the sales might be on?

MYredcardigan. - I am very pro taking children out for hols, not sure what you meant at the top of the page referring to me about children missing out etc?!

I am the one who says they wont miss much! Unless there is another FC.

I have fought all the way for families to be allowed to have holidays within term time. IMO far more important life enhacing than stuck in a class of 30 and doing perhaps an hour of actual school work a day. That is more than made up with the experience and learning from being away somewhere exciting with your family.

Take them. There is too much government interference in private family life. Your children are yours and do not belong to the state.

Up the revolution!

myredcardigan - sorry - just realised that you were referring to FC as in FiveCandles and not FC as in Forevercleaning!!

I didn't realise everyone was going to be quite so passionate! It's great to hear everyones views and experiences, thank you. As I said I'm seeing the Head this week so I will discuss it with her and we'll make our decision from there. By the way, ilove, can I talk to you about the cruise itself? I have questions!! If we decide to go, obviously!!

My ds's school is very against authorising holidays during term time unless it is a trip of a lifetime. If it is then they are apparently very supportive. This doesn't include ski holidays, beach holidays etc but something that can be viewed of real educational value.

I might take my ds out of school for a few days next year in Year 1 but it that would be because we would be going to South Africa and spending time helping with a children's charity in a township. Last time we were there my ds was 2.5 and nearly two years later he still talks about it. I would hope that the school would consider that of sufficient educational value but based on the comments here I will check before we book the flights!

I have not read the whole thread but agree with the comment that children should only miss school if the holiday has real educational value. Just cannot see the point of taking them out otherwise and especially those who are taken out for the first couple off weeks start of term in September when its cheap! It must be awful for them to return to school after missing the first two weeks of a new school year.

FivCandles - I think it is fair to remember that the OP is ONLY doing this because it is the ONLY time she and her DH can get leave. And they are not doing it every year - it is the first time they have done it.

The Guidance for LEAs and Schools says:

"Schools can only agree to absence for a family holiday if they believe there are special circumstances which warrant it." If I was a Head I would consider that inflexible leave for parents was a special circumstance.

When I was at school no-one ever took term-time hols (because no-one went on foreign hols) EXCEPT people whose parents had no choice about when they could take leave.

Bunch - term-time hols is a favourite MN hot potato