Taking DD out of school for holidays - been unauthorised.

[Bunch]

Me and DH have booked a 2 week holiday for next May. DD is in Year 4 and DS in Year R. DS headteacher has authorised his 10 days but DD's headteacher has not. We realise now that we should have had the school authorise it before we booked it but its too late. Apparently it is the week that they have their QCA tests (whatever they are). I know it is Sats time but not until Year 6 so I didn't think it would be a problem. What would everyone do?

wow! Sounds a fantastic experience.

So much to be gained from having this opportunity. Go, and don't feel in least bit guilty.

If she was in my class I'd ask her tokeep a diary and bring back photos and postcards.
I'd also ask her to make a note of two things that are different from home and two things that are the same. Sounds fab, have a great time!

I sympathise, I find it very difficult to be allowed time off in the school holidays. Where I work only 3 people per week are allowed on holiday at the same time as each other and no leave at Xmas. There are over 40 staff. Most people do not get permission for annual leave in the school holidays.

I always took dd out for holidays in primary school (would always team it with the may holidays so she would have only one week off).

Am at your dd's primary, she's 4 fgs how important can it be???? (oh just noticed about the sats thing, maybe you shouldve checked).

But generally I have no problem with people taking kids out of school for one or two weeks holiday once a year. Repeatedly is different, or those parents who let their child have days of sick for a sniffle and have about 6 weeks off sick a year (girl in dd's class like this). They were always allowed 11 days authorised per year. However the high school are very strict and dont allow anything

Side issue - the Baltic cruise is fantastic, and could be extremely educational...

Who are you travelling with?

On P&O Aurora. Have you been then?

Bunch - I think that inflexibility of parental leave IS an 'authorisable' reason for taking term-time hols.

I once found this whole list of registration codes, for authorised and unauthorised absence - holidays CAN be authorised if , for e.g, there has been serious illness, and I am sure parental leave was a factor. I don't know if it was on the Dfes website - buyt I have not managed to find it again.

Does the Head know about your inflexible leave? And the nature of the trip?

We did state about the inflexible leave but didn't say exactly where we were going. We are seeing her this week so I'll tell her where we're going then.

i know the LEA uses @exceptional circumstances@ such as armed forces leave, prents who have been in hospital, that sort of thing.

Bunch - how did the head word her response? Or was it just a form marked 'unauthorised'?

The 'unauthorised' box was ticked and she wrote that it was the 2 weeks of the QCA tests so leave is not authorised during this important period.

These QCA tests,are they the ones that they call CAT tests? Similar to SATs but the unofficial ones which the school do off their own back?

sounds a wonderful trip in any case and dd should definitely keep an illustrated diary

Luckily DD is the type of child that would keep a diary and collect postcards and leaflets without prompting anyway so she'll really enjoy doing that. Also I guess she'll have different currency to deal with. I'm planning on getting books out of the library prior to going on each of the different places we're visiting so she can find out bits before we go.
I'm not sure if the QCA tests are the same as CATs as I've never heard of them before now!

I do appreciate there may be times when there are really good reasons for taking kids out during school holidays but what does piss me off is this why should it concern anyone else attitude?

FYI it DOES concern other people. For a start there's the teacher who has to spend time catching the kids up on work they've missed, then there's the kids who are behind because of the work they've missed, then there's the other kids who are disrupted because their teacher has to spend time with the kids who've been on holiday. And I agree that it's not a good message to give your kids and more importantly the other kids in the class. So inconsiderate if there's not some vital reason.

I am teaching a kid this year who got a C in his GCSE last year and is demanding an A so he can get into Med school . Actually he did quite well in his exams but poorly in his coursework when I asked him why he explained he'd been on a family holiday while the coursework was being taught. Something of a mixed message there - he wants to do well but not enough to be in school to get the work done!

As for the money issue, I agree with others. As a teacher I HAVE to stick to school holidays and would anyway for my kids' sake. If we can't afford to go away which we haven't been always able to for the last few years then we stay in England which is better for the environment anyway or find other ways of cutting costs.

As for the my kids learn loads on holiday argument. I'm sure that's true sometimes but quite often kids are actually going to places wehre they don't leave teh holiday compound or places like Disney World which are hardly renowned for their educational value.

And then people wonder why their school is sinking down league tables because of number of unauthorised absence Can't stand the idea that this isn't everybody's responsibility.

DD1 (7) took six weeks authorised absence from her school last year to spend three months in Spain with Grand parents. It makes me so angry that some one else can dictate to me what is best for my own child. I am not an irresponsible parent, and highly value my child's education, but could see the immense benefits she got from having no formal lessons or time tables for three months. The school were fully supportive of us, and the head master said he was not worried because he knew that we were involved parents who would never let our daughters education suffer. Surely common sense and balance is all that is really needed. She stayed until after her year 2 exams as we would never take her out if she was approaching any assesments or exams. Have just got permission to take her out for a few days before half term so she gets 2 weeks in Spain, where she is almost fluent in Spanish and actually is encouraged to 'teach' her class a few words when she comes back. BTW, she is the top reader in her year, and among the top five out of sixty at maths, so really hasn't damaged her at all.

Fivecandles, to be fair, I think it is different at secondary level. I teach infants (though taught juniors for many years) and I never saw it as detrimental to a childs education. Nor did I ever spend time doing catch up when that child returned. Anything important in say, maths is covered 3 times in the year anyway. Ok, so a year 2 child could miss out on the teaching of capital letters but this is reinforced and drip fed throughout the next two years anyway that they soon pick it up.

There is a massive difference between a GCSE student missing coursework and a 7yr old missing 2wks of standard lessons. Yes it is rule breaking but if agreed by parents and school why does the child need to know that? There is no need to bring up the breaking of the rules with the child and as adults the parents and teachers can interpret the acceptable levels of flexibility.

Other things have value besides academic education. Things like relationships. Families going on holiday together away from normal daily life can be very educational in a more holistic way than school. If due to work commitments or cost this can only be done during term-time then that shouldn't be frowned on. And I think that it doesn't have to be an "educational" holiday to have value. Just re-connecting with family members is valuable too and emotionally educational.

Perhaps the curriculum is too packed/classes too big etc and it might be better all round if there was time to consider the human side of people. Maybe allowing for children who have been on holiday to catch up without the rest of the class missing out or the teacher being driven to the point of a nervous breakdown.
Maybe it's the system that needs looking at to allow for families.

I don't understand why a fortnight's holiday should be so shocking.

Teachers at our school have had holidays during term-time. They are also missing for days here and there due to meetings/courses. I realise that isn't a holiday and is part of their job but it still means that their classes are missing their teacher.

Ooohhh we;ve been on that Baltic cruise for our honeymoon! Took the children with us and it was WONDERFUL!

We went to Copenhagen, St Petersburg, Helsinki, Oslo and Stockholm. If you can and they still go there, take her to the Vigeland Sculpture Park...it was absolutely amazing and so educational!

Ooh, I'm jealous!

Pretty evenly divided, aren't we?

As I made clear at the top of page 3 here, I feel that there should be no issue if a known to be responsible parent of a known to be attaining DC takes time off during term time, I really don't have an issue with it.

I think the argument re the 'catch up' time is a BIT precious as, judging by 90% of the other educationally related posts on MN, we're all agonising about how our DC isn't being stretched as they're OBVIOUSLY YEARS ahead of their peers, OR how their DC isn't being SEN'ed as they're lagging behind so far. A week or 2 ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE THAT. We are talking academic differences of a year either way by Y5, for instance.

How about if the application form comes with the caveat "The school is under no obligation to make up lost educational time with your child" and perhaps get the teacher to chuck the missed homework in a separate file each day to give to the parent upon their return- perhaps with the warning it won't get marked?

And as for the 'Think of the poor teachers and their inability to TAKE in term holidays' back atcha- You, like us, chose your profession. The downside of yours is you can only holiday during school holidays. You're compensated by having 13-17 weeks paid holiday p.a.... And no child care issues during the hols. Swings and roundabouts.

Families have THIRTEEN weeks in a year to holiday together so I see no good reason why it's necessary to holiday a week before an official school holiday. If you can't afford to go away then don't go away - you can have a perfectly wonderful family holiday without spending loads of money.

myredcardigan, I think the point here is that it WASN'T agreed by the school who have refused to authorise the holiday and it will therefore appear on the schools stats which are published in league tables.

The other issue here is that the child will be missing exams which every other child in the class will be doing.

tesla's girl, I think that's an incredibly selfish attitude. Just because teachers get a lot of holiday does not work as a justification for having to spend their time (and other students' time) helping kids catch up when their parents have taken them out of school for a holiday for purely financial reasons.

I do appreciate that it might be different at primary school (though frankly I wouldn't want my kids going to any school where if they missed a week they hadn't missed anything) but it's still incredibly disruptive and inconvenient and sends out a really poor message to the kids involved and the others in the class and the potential paretns reading the league tables if the holiday is unauthorised which in this case it is.

I agree, Teslagirl and said as much in my post further back. We cannot have it both ways; Complaining children are being pushed too far and complaining if they miss just a week or two through an enriching family holiday.

When teaching infants I have often had 2 or 3 children off for 2wks at a time with chickenpox. Whilst that can't be helped it in no way affects their overall attainment.

As a teacher, I won't be taking mine out of school because I am limited to school holidays but as you say that is offset somewhat by the length of the holidays I do get.

FC,I didn't say they wouldn't miss anything just that they wouldn't miss anything which wouldn't be drip fed to them over the next couple of terms anyway. That is the nature of the numeracy strategy. A science, history of geography project will cover at least half a term sometime an entire term so no problem there either.

I have to disagree that it is 'incredibly disruptive'. Again, perhaps at secondary level but not at primary where the same teacher just carries on teaching the same preps lessons to the rest of the class.

In fact, as I said earlier, it is often incredibly exciting when a classmate bring back photographs, postcards and a diary. We plot it on the world map, compare the cultures,climate, food,schooling (all NC QCA units BTW)Not at all disruptive.