Prep school admission test for reception class

[Sue9]

Hello, my DS is to have an informal assessment in November, for a reception place in 2009.

Does anyone know what sort of tests they give to 3 year olds?

Since the prep school takes the vast majority of their students at reception, and most get the independent school places they want at 11+. I am assuming their testing at age 3 is accurately predicting future performance at 11+.

I just don?t know what tests they will give him on the day. I really would like to prepare him for it if possible.

Could someone please help?

Me again. Tutoring a child is not a matter of "farming it out" - a tutor doesn't replace a parent, it's an addition. Nor is it "personal training". This is strong language to use when describing parenting and quite accusatory. Of course my children have a secure, loving home with plenty of one to one time - today we've played mums and dads endlessly, kings and queens, dressed up, been to the park.. and the list goes on. The only "me-time" I have is when the little cherubs are all tucked up asleep. That's what motherhood is about - devotion. And that's where the notion of even considering a tutor stems from - I'm utterly devoted to ensuring my children have the best start possible. Education, emotion, entertainment - they all have a part to play, but there aren't any rights or wrongs - and really the finger wagging should stop.

We all do it our own way but we will just have to agree to disagree because we are poles apart. I love my DCs to bits and was a SAHM when they were under 5 yrs but I don't think motherhood is about devotion and I think an adult is entitled to some 'me time' when they are awake. Healthy neglect is one of the best things that you can give them, a bit of boredom does wonders for the imagination and the ability to amuse themselves. Playing with friends and learning to share is valuable. They can learn all that they need to at that age at home. I certainly didn't have an agenda to get them into the 'right' school. I fail to see how you can tell at 3yrs of age what the 'right' school for them is going to be.
I didn't even know that you could get a tutor for such a young DC.
I think that I am a thorn in the flesh of people who HE because I am constantly telling them that lots of DCs love school. However I am beginning to have more sympathy for them. Given a choice of HE and hothousing under 5s to pass a school assessment I would go for HE everytime! I think that we start formal learning far too early in this country and think that the early years are the one time in our lives that we should be completely free of pressures and worries about education. Looking back it goes far too quickly and it should just be enjoyed by parent and child.
I had this freedom and still had a good education and I want the same for my DCs.

I have to say, Abbey, you are beginning to sound like those nursery nurses and nannies who whinge about how terrible it is that mothers go to work and put their children in daycare. The fact that it's offering them a living seems to escape them!

I am not against nurseries but I wasn't looking for nurseries to teach my DC letters etc at such a young age, I wanted them to play, get dirty, learn to interact with others,share, sing action songs etc.
I find it utterly depressing that anyone would want to tutor a DC of that age. I googled it to see what came up and it appears to be a big thing in America.
this page
Interestingly it ends up saying that some parents are getting disillusioned and were accepting that their DC would do things when ready.
I also saw an advert from a mother in Nottingham who had workbooks and wanted to pay someone to do the workbooks with her DC. Reading between the lines I would say that the DC has very sensibly refused to do it with her mother so she thinks that she will do it with a stranger!

Children are all different. When my DS1 was 2yrs he knew every car make, the first word he read was 'Ford' seen on a factory from the motor way. He liked words and had a very advanced vocabulary. He asked questions like' How do bridges stay up in the middle?'. DS2 was physical, he could ride a two wheeler at 3 yrs and had superb ball skills. DS3 would draw all the time and make things out of boxes and card etc.
I went with what interested them. I didn't say 'help-DS1 must learn how to hold a pencil,or he won't pass an assessment.'
DS3 was almost 7 before he rode a two wheeler. They all get there in the end-at their own speed.

It is very interesting when you get further on in development. DS1 went from the lower maths group at primary school to get an A at A'level and study physics at a top university (out performing most of the top of the top group at primary!).

All I am saying is that you need to pause and wonder what you might be doing to your DC as you try to produce a DC who outperforms their peer group.

If they fail an assessment at 3yrs it isn't the end of the world-find another school.

Just to clarify they would never know they had taken part in an assessment let alone failed it so no harm done. Far more stressful at 11, I'd say.

I have agreed that I am not against assessing at 3 yrs, having listened to people on this thread.
I am pleasantly surprised that the DC is seen without the parent and that schools (on the whole) do not like DCs being prepared. If the DC is just told, on the day, that they are going to have some fun and play some games then I don't have a problem with it. I still think it is pretty difficult to do with a DC who sticks his thumb in his mouth and won't speak but presumably the schools have a way around that.
However I am totally against employing a tutor for a pre-school child. I have no doubt that people will call me emotive again but I wouldn't want any part in in a society that would do that to their young children.

Well I don't see it as too different from employing a good nanny to look after them or the parent spending time teaching a 3 year old to read who is interested in reading or us picking reasonably good nursery schools for our children to go to in the mornings only. It can be nice for children partricularly from big families to get some one to one attention. If it just seems like a game I can't see the harm in it. It's probably largely a waste of money at that age but if it makes the parents feel happier and earns the "tutor" some money then let it be. Parents take 3 year olds to swimming lessons. it's nto as if we think a 3 year old cannot learn anything and shouldn't be taught.

It is a complete waste of money, but if people want to pay it out to feel happy that is up to them!! I have been asked to tutor DCs but haven't because I want to work school hours. I see that I can now register with an agency and earn easy money!

Children are like sponges at that age, bright DCs pick it up by themselves. If you have an average or below average DC then you can drill them to give an early advantage, but it will all even out before they get very far in their education.

My DH is a very good example of a DC with a high IQ. He came from a very ordinary background and his parents were the least pushy people that you can imagine. They were loving,supportive and spent time with their DCs but they didn't 'teach'. DH had taught himself to read by the age of 3, just by following the words while his parents read a bedtime story. He went to a state primary where he was recognised as bright and the school (note NOT the parents)suggested that he sat for a scholarship to the local fee paying secondary. He got a full scholarship. He didn't have a tutor, he didn't get masses of practise papers and he didn't burn the midnight hours getting drilled to the eyeballs! He found it hard work when he got there and there were quite a few tears over subjects like Latin that his parents couldn't help him with. They didn't get tutors, he got to grips with it by himself. He got a very good degree at a very good university.

Good academic schools want DCs with high IQs who can cope with the work. They do not want DCs who have had a tutor since the age of 3 and can't cope on their own!

I think some of you are in for a shock! A DC is not a blank sheet of paper for you to write whatever you wish! My DCs are now teenagers, we have lived in the same area for a long time, and I have known many of the teens from babyhood. They do not all turn out as you would imagine! One lovely little boy (anyone's dream DC) from a very good background has been expelled from grammar school for dealing in cannabis. His sister is still everyone's dream DC, so it is nothing to do with background.

Small DCs need love, security and freedom to explore; they do not need someone pushing them to be something they are not, or to do things before they are ready. You may want to produce a brain surgeon, they may want to be a hairdresser.

Here you go....as mentioned in an earlier post.
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/index.jhtml

Sorry meant to link to the actual page - click through the link at the top.

Ok - this is for Highgate so may or may not be representative as I already knew at that point even if my DS1 ever made it we would probably move. DS1 was < 3 but can't exactly remember how many months past 2 but he is an Aug birthday. I was horrified - they presented a house, DS was expected to put Winnie the Pooh to bed, a selection of numbers laid our (1-5) DS1 was expected to put one bear on number one, two bears on two etc. Some letters of the alphabet were selected, he was asked to choose the correct letter. A final tour of the nursery took place, DS1 was handed a pair of scissors (he was approx 2.5) and asked to cut up paper, taken to a dinosaur pit and asked to describe the creatures.

Overall we were contacted to say that DS1 had impressed but was only on the reserve list - they would contact us if he moved on. But overwhelmingly questions revolved round where he had been in nursery up until this point (clearly with him mum didn't cut it).

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting article and I would say definitely more harm than good. My DS1 might have cooperated in that horrible test, celtiethree, because he was interested in dinosaurs-DS3 could have done it but he wouldn't!

In my last post I explained how my DS got a full scholarship to an independent school. His younger brother was in and out of hospital until the age of 7. He wouldn't do any school work at home, he just refused to take it seriously. He failed the 11+ and went to the secondary modern. He left at 16 and joined a large company. He took exams at regular intervals and worked his way up. He now has a senior position, flies all around the world and can afford to educate his DCs privately (even though his wife is not a high earner). He got there in the end-it was just slower which is probably why he chooses the private sector for his own children).

I failed the 11+ and started at a secondary modern before going on to the 6th form of the grammar school. If selection at 11 was so wonderful you would expect to find all the failures still in their home town working in shops and factories. This is NOT the case. I went into Friends Reunited. I spent a very short time looking at my year at secondary modern and the years either side.
I found quite a few teachers, nurses and accountants. I also found an Educational Psychologist , a Cof E vicar, a BA pilot,a Head Teacher, various managers of companies and electrical and mechanical engineers. There was a man who had married a Swiss lady and was a Swiss national, there was a US citizen and quite a few in Australia, New Zealand and Canada-not to mention all over the UK. This is all from an unremarkable secondary modern from a medium sized town in the North of England. I did the same exercise with my grammar school, surprise, surprise-there were teachers, nurses and accountants (hoards of teachers!)and the results were very similar.

I agree with the Head of Stowe School-a league table of what people were doing with their learning at the age of 40 would be far more interesting.

You can pay out for tutors for your 3 yrs olds, if you want to, but it is a complete and utter waste of money IMO. You would be much better giving them some loving, benign neglect and letting them have a childhood!

Abbey, I think the point about eventual outcomes is really interesting.

The thing that really exercises me in all of this is what we (and I include myself in this) really want for our children out of it. Most people seem to be focused on the process (I want them to go to a 'good' school) rather than the outcomes. Those that are focused on the outcomes seem to look at it in a very linear and limited way - if my child gets into this school at 3, they'll probably go to this school at 11, and will get into a good university at 18.

And then what? Some people, like Xenia, go beyond that to 'and then they'll earn lots of money'. But for what? To ensure that they can pay to put their children on the same educational treadmill - a vicious circle of earning money so we can pay for private schools so our children can earn money to send their children to private schools. Xenia's entire argument about earning money seems to be focused on school fees.

There are other outcomes that parents consider beyond than getting over the next educational hurdle.

For example, I want (among many other things) my daughter to complete her education being completely bilingual and bicultural (French-English). That is a very important outcome for me. But it isn't linked to any particular career path.

I agree singersgirl. I don't see earning lots of money being the best possible outcome. As long as you can live comfortably, and don't have to worry about where the next bill is coming from, you don't need a luxury lifestyle, it never seems to make people very happy anyway.
I was struck by the interesting life that some of the 11+ failures had lived. The Cof E vicar had got there after a very varied career. The man married to a Swiss woman had quite an exciting time before he ended up in Switzerland.
I think Anna has the right idea, I would love my DSs to be bilingual and bicultural-a much better start than the narrow hoop of selection at 3yrs of age.
I am an older mum and it rather shows up with the grammar school girls, back in my day, that women were a bit limited in their choice of career. It isn't the case today. I went to a university open day with my DS yesterday. I remarked to my DH that although I wouldn't want to be a teenager again I would like to start my career over again! I was struck by the variety of courses and the wonderful facilities.
People should have more faith in their own DCs! My great,great,great grandfather was orphaned at the age of 7yrs. He was put into an army boarding school for the orphaned children of soldiers. He did very well for himself in the end and he certainly didn't have his mummy hovering over him-he was on his own! Obviously I feel very sorry for him but there is a middle way!

A wonderful article in The Times yesterday.
this page. How American motherhood ruined my life.

That is a good one Abbey - have forwarded it to a friend who has just moved to the US and having a bit of parenting culture shock! She moved there from Germany and I think the contrast is greater than it would be from the UK.

On the same day there was another good article about choosing schools. It said that you need to match your DC to the right school for them. The school with fantastic results and wonderful reputation may not be the right school.
this page

Thanks for those links; they're both interesting.

This is a very interesting discussion, thanks for that ladies.

I can see both sides of it - those who want ch to have fun before school and those who see that for success in life one needs certain qualifications and that the path to those unfortunately nowadays starts very young.

HOwever, I don't think anyone has yet cited the headmistress of a well known notting hill based boys school who encouraged mothers to have their section "early in the month the child will be born" to get his name down early.

I was shocked a head could take such a view - surely one has the section when it is best for you and the baby, not some school's admissions list!?

Zombie thread...