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Original poster

Prep school admission test for reception class

223 replies

Sue9 · 02/10/2008 04:35

Hello, my DS is to have an informal assessment in November, for a reception place in 2009.

Does anyone know what sort of tests they give to 3 year olds?

Since the prep school takes the vast majority of their students at reception, and most get the independent school places they want at 11+. I am assuming their testing at age 3 is accurately predicting future performance at 11+.

I just don?t know what tests they will give him on the day. I really would like to prepare him for it if possible.

Could someone please help?

OP posts:
MadBadandDangeroustoKnow · 03/10/2008 22:33

Even the fiercely academic prep school near us has 'catch up' provision for children who are falling behind, which is perhaps another indication that selection at 3 is never going to be a very precise science.

MrsMattie · 04/10/2008 19:40

Can someone please explain to me what on earth these schools think they are doing? I mean, what? Getting shot of the difficult kids? The special needs kids? The ones who don't fit into some sort of narrow pre-conceived idea of what a 3 yr olds 'should' be like? Or is there some other point that I am completely missing?

I don't mean to step into these private school threads and rant on and on, really I don't, but I am always left absolutely aghast at the way parents casually chit chat about their pre-school children being 'observed', 'tested' or whatever as a basis for them getting into any school - especially one that you are going to pay through the nose for anyway.

The mind boggles.

hercules1 · 04/10/2008 19:43

I believe there is tutoring that you can get for 3 year olds for entrance exams. SHudder

oops · 04/10/2008 19:50

Message withdrawn

jujumaman · 04/10/2008 20:09

I've just posted on another thread about state vs private at 4yrs my experience at an assessment for three year olds today

Won't repeat what I said there. But it was a fiasco. Of course I am biased as dd disgraced herself by screaming hysterically, refusing to let me out of her sight and then not putting yellow pegs in the board because she "only likes pink"

But she's three fgs! What's she meant to be doing - quoting Homer. Answer, yes, probably, judging by some of the kids there who had definitely been coached .

It was an eyeopener and not in a good way,

Grumpalina · 04/10/2008 20:22

Don't even think about preparing a 3 yr old. Just let him be himself and have fun. I think they're just looking for children who are interested in things and will enjoy the school.

My DS1 is an April child and he had his informal assessment in the Jan prior to the Sept. He could write his name and could recognise a few letters and did counting. But he wasn't anything out of the ordinary for a 3 yr old. I think he was asked about his family and drew a picture. He was in with the headmistress for 45 mins but came out jumping up and down with excitement.

DS2 is a July baby and had his assessment in the Nov prior to just starting this Sept (so he was only just three). He couldn't do anything formal like recognise letters/numbers, write his name but again he's just interested and enthusiastic about everything. When the headmistress came out he was jumping up and down like a jack rabbit and she said even though he wasn't doing anything like reading writing etc etc but she felt 'he would always get on in life'.

He started 3 weeks ago and has come on in leaps and bounds.

Just chill out and let him be himself. You don't want to let him think it's a big deal or anything. You just want him to have a fun time.

Dottoressa · 04/10/2008 20:29

My DS's assessment consisted of playing, and talking to the teachers. He wouldn't go off on his own at three (still won't at six!!), so I sat with him while the teacher oh-so-casually engaged him in conversation. He could read well by then, but they weren't very interested in that; I think they were more interested in how he got on with the other children, and whether he was generally bright-seeming.

DD has managed to skip the assessment as a result of being a sibling!!

AbbeyA · 04/10/2008 20:29

I wouldn't even think of doing anything. If he is anything like my DSs he would refuse to cooperate anyway!

MrsMattie · 04/10/2008 20:32

How do they select children, though ?

Aren't all 3 yr olds 'interested in things'? And the ones that aren't - the ones who have separation anxiety or are just a little too young at that particular stage to cope with pre-school or are shy or just don't 'perform' well in the short time allotted to them for 'assessment'- they are ruled out as 'unsuitable', are they?

I think anyone who makes a judgement about how someone will get on in life at the age of 3 yrs old is extremely dodgy, sorry!

I don't mean to be personal @Grumpalina - I just genuinely find this sort of attitude towards education puzzling.

jujumaman · 04/10/2008 20:39

mrsmattie

You are completely right, it's insanity as I know to my cost

Seeing how inept the school was at dealing with the shyer, less adept children was a shocker - they didn't stand a chance and who's to say they're not the brightest/sportiest etc. It sounds like grumpalina's school did a one on one with an experienced teacher which would be an improvement on the shambles I witnessed but still ... [hmmm]

I know many very highly rated prep schools refuse to assess three year olds because it's meaningless and prefer to do a ballot or first come first served and they are quite right.

hercules1 · 04/10/2008 20:40

I've been teaching for years now and wouldnt have a clue at how you can assess a 3 year old. How awful to fail at 3.

TotalChaos · 04/10/2008 20:43

in a way, this thread is none of my business, but I suppose I do find all the discussion of selecting and weeding out kids with SN makes me feel a bit queasy (probably because DS's language SN would have ruled him out of any selective school) But then our experiences colour our views - those with kids who flew through the assessments and go to a school they love will feel rather more positively about it all.

Grumpalina · 04/10/2008 21:00

MrsM:I don't think they are choosing children at three expecting them the get into Oxbridge at 18. The comment she made about DS2 wasn't really about the assessment it was just about his general personality (charming and cheeky (I have always joked that if he were a used car salesman he'd be the one you did buy your car off IYSWIM . It was just a light hearted comment not anything to be taken seriously!! To be fair it wasn't the first time she'd met him as DS1 has been going there for the past 4 years.

I was just trying to explain to the OP that it isn't anything formal and certainly isn't something that a child should be prepared for.

I think the only person who could answer about how they select the children would be the teacher who does the assessments. I think they are more than able to deal with a child who is shy or has separation. I would think they would be more concerned about the out of control child who was trying to swing from the light fittings or kicking the cat.

lalalonglegs · 04/10/2008 21:10

All these schools that claim to have huge oversubscription - how can they prove it (four applications for every place seems to be the standard claim on this thread)? Isn't it just a way of ratcheting up parental anxiety and getting them to jump through these ridiculous hoops? I'm sure that "observing" children will disappear altogether once some of those finance sector salaries/property equity borrowing is a thing of the past.

I have to agree with Mrs Mattie - any sort of selection at three turns my stomach. I cannot imagine why people would want to send their children to a school where they are all expected to conform to such a narrow ideal or where their child may be labelled a failure before he has even been allowed to start.

AbbeyA · 04/10/2008 22:17

I don't think I would want my DC to go to a school where they were selected at 3.
My nephew started a nursery at 3 and then they were selected again at 5 and some where asked to go elsewhere. They were then selected again at 8 and again at 11yrs. It seemed completely wrong to me; if they had taken the money and educated the child from 3 they should have made sure that they could go on at each stage-not reject them! To my mind they weren't doing their job if they had the DC from such an early age and then asked them to go elsewhere.My nephew is still there at 14-I have no doubt they will select again at 16, despite taking all that money!

Judy1234 · 04/10/2008 22:23

My daughters went to schools where they were assessed at age 4. The schools used to assess at 7 when they could test spelling, verbal reasoning, times tables etc but found they could assess just as well at for entry at 5 as at 7 actually and I don't think they've gone down the league tables since starting children younger. My girls' schools are in the top 4 on this league table etc www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/a_level_gcse_results/

But they do get girls coming in at 11+ from other schools including state schools too. The second one didn't get into the first one's school but into a similar school at 7+. I am sure either would have been fine at the school of the other and there is an element of hit and miss and luck but there are loads of things you can look out for at that age. If you want a very academically selective school then given average IQ in the UK is 100 and plenty of people are below that you can seek to weed out those with an IQ under 120 for a start.

You can see who might be a nightmare in class because they thump all the other children although schools do tend to want a balance in classes between quiet and noisy ones. You can look at who can hold a pencil, who can concentrate, who has that aura of brightness about them that you can sometimes see in little children.

What can parents do? Look at their children, listen to them, talk to them so they have a wide vocabulary, ensure they eat well and exercise, read them stories every night. We certainly didn't prepare at all other than that sort of stuff. I think one test they were asked to pick up a card with their name written on but one daughter was reading at 3 (the one who didn't get in her big sister's school) and the other not until 6 - very different children. We always though daughter 2 didn't get her place because triplet girls got three of the places but in fact it worked out fine with her at the other school.

It would be interesting to track where the girls who start at 4 or 5 end up on graduating and those who start at 11+ from the state sector end up - whether the ex state ones are cleverer because they've competed more at 11+ or if those who were in the school all those years do better may be because their parents are richer and can afford fees at age 4. I could do a non scientific survey by asking my girls I suppose.

Quattrocento · 04/10/2008 22:25

From memory, the really gruelling bits were:

Chatting
Cutting out shapes
Playing with sand
Sorting piles of lego bricks

No need for preparation - though probably a good idea to make sure they are fresh and not overtired. Get them to go to the loo before hand.

It has been a while since mine did the round of these - they are 8&10 now - my knowledge might be a bit dated - people are probably hiring tutors now for pre-prep assessments ...

MrsMattie · 04/10/2008 22:27

But what were they looking for?@Quattro

Confused.

AbbeyA · 04/10/2008 22:27

If a school takes the money off parents from the age of 3 and then tells them at 7 that their DC has to leave they have failed the DC IMO.
Assessment at 3 is dreadful. My DS was very bright but at his 3 yr assessment he decided not to talk. He did all the tasks but sucked his thumb throughout! I think a school would have failed him!

Quattrocento · 04/10/2008 22:33

Oh believe you me they don't make many mistakes. Even at the age of 3. I had a chat with the head and she told me that all of hers had gone through the various stages where children get eased out without being eased out.

What are they looking for? Intelligence. How does this manifest itself in three year olds? Well it's not my field but I did ask the question myself. I asked this at the girls' schools rather than DS's so the answers might be different for boys.

They told me they looked for an ability to interact and respond intelligently. Also spatial awareness. Apparently DD excelled at cutting out. I was mystified by this but she cut around the shapes terribly neatly. Go figure. The schools do know what they are doing though.

AbbeyA · 04/10/2008 22:38

They are babies at 3! They never get chance to be children if you are worrying about their ability when they come out of the womb!
All it shows is that schools want to be top of the league tables. Some people are very slow developers-boys especially are not going to show their potential at 3 yrs old.

MrsMattie · 04/10/2008 22:39

I find this deeply, deeply depressing. So depressing, in fact, that I have to step away from the thread in disgust.

AbbeyA · 04/10/2008 22:45

You are not alone MrsMattie, I also find it deeply distressing, I am appalled that in a civilized society we can treat children in such a way.

Quattrocento · 04/10/2008 22:49

What's to be depressed about MrsM? It's not a biggie. Honestly it's just a natter with a grown-up to the tots.

MollieO · 04/10/2008 22:51

We had no formal testing/assessment, just an informal chat with the head. I think that is the norm for private schools in our area. I do know that elsewhere 3 yr olds are assessed for admission, they have another assessment at 7 and so on throughout the school. Even though I'm told my ds is very bright I wouldn't put him through that at that age. Different with common entrance/scholarship exams because by then it he will be old enough to decide if he wants to do them.