How would Autistic children in a class effect my daughter ?

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi, I'm concidering a primary school with a specialist unit attached for children with autism. They are in the regular classes as much as possible and they play with the other children at play times.
I just wondered how it would affect teaching for the rest of the class? I know that autistic children need a lot of support and attention, bless them and could be disruptive. I also worry about supervision in the playground, as I know form experience of working with autistic adults that they can become violent and be unpredictable.
I want my daughter to grow up having an understanding and tollerence to all sorts of people, but I do think I'd worry about her as she is very tactile and very sensitive. She is also very easily disrupted.

I think its a fair question tbh. A friend from M&T has a son that is looking like he will be autistic. He is prone to violent outbursts that concern me, irrelevent of whether or not he turns out to be on the spectrum. The thing is, and i really am not being patronising. Apart from this, he is the most enchanting little boy i have ever met - wise beyond his little three years, but lovely. This does not however, if i am totally honest, lessen my concerns about DD spending time with him. I would like to think i would not veto a friendship though, but i think if we are all honest we would all be concerned, mostly due to our lack of understanding.

lol, she has one pair of jeens. She loves them. I don't!. They are very girly though with flowers on etc and very soft.

mummyloveslucy

if you are in London by any chance, get in touch with me and arrange to meet up with us including my four year old DS with autism who is also in mainstream at a school with an autism resource base attached

I am sure that meeting my DS will put your mind at rest

tbh, in many ways I would prefer him not to be educated with nt children! but we are not quite there yet

justaflyingvisit

My 2 younger son's spend an awful lot of time with their severely autistic brother. I have been told at their school that I'm 'obviously doing something right' and 'it doesn't seem to affect him at all' and 'he's very considerate towards the other children' and even 'oh is that why he's so quiet at school'.

What I'm trying to say is that autism isn't 'caught' by osmosis. My eldest son certainly displays challenging behaviours (not violence- if people with autism hit out its usually either due to frustration as described above, or due to sensory difficulties- my son is totally hyposensitive- hence he hits for communication, and feedback and because he thinks its funny- himself or me though, not other children) and his younger brothers are growing up considerate, polite and well behaved (well ds2 is, ds3 aged 3 is rather strong willed- nothing to do with ds1 though). I love and value all 3 son's equally. Recently ds3 (aged 3) told me "ds1 is my brother and my friend and I love him." They're just kids.

Xenia, what would you have done if you had a child who wasn't "clever enough" to get into one of your "selective" schools?

Poor MML! I actually think part of the problem was the timing of your thread as there have been a couple of threads ( Peachy's included) over the last 2 days or so, which were really horrible about children with asd in mainstream schools

I know you meant well! Your dd will be fine, the main thing is that she has a very supportive Mummy and that means more than anything else!

Thanks everyone, I don't live anywhere near London unfortunatly. From what I've heard already, I had a pretty unrealistic view of autism.
If my child was autistic, I worry about the nt in the class etc too.
When my daughter was about 2, my mums friend came around who works with autistic children and she mentioned to my mum that she thought there might be a chance that Lucy was autistic.
I just thought no way, she's far too loving , cuddlie etc.
All of those traits seem to have gon now, or calmed down hugely.

Ducked out of this yesterday as it was a bit for me but popped back to check Fabio had spotted that I was joking

having caught up I have to say...

FWIW I would be very surprised if Xenias DCS arn't at school with children on the spectrum. My DS1 is at a highly academic school and he can spot ASD traits a mile off because of his brother. ASD and very high academic ability are often linked.

And MLL. I hope that with all the advice and support you have got here you are feeling much more confident about school. And I am certainly pleased that some of your assumptions are being challenged ( as that is good for everyone including you and your DD) - especially the notion that children with ASD are never cuddly and affectionate.
That is a common belief and it is of course absoloute drivel.
Interestingly in the year before my DS2 was properly diagnosed the reason they could not confirm it as ASD was because of his levels of affection. And he had good eye contact back again by then too.

My DS2 is loving and affectionate and spends quite a large percentage of the day kissing and hugging me and close family. He curls up on my lap every evening for half and hour before bed. And when he arrives at his school each day three of the boys in his class all hug and pat each other and welcome each other. He has never hit another child since he passed that toddler stage. Not many 12 year olds that you can say that about I think.

yurt
Thats sweet. DS1 is the same.
although DD finds DS2 annoying because he won't do as she tells him.

MLL - may I suggest if you have any further interest that you have a look at Donna Williams website - www.donnawilliams.net for a more rounded view of adults on the spectrum.

If a child was easily overwhelmed, didn't like change, wanted everything in it's place and had speech dificulties but was very afectionate could that be autism ?.

MLL - characteristically with ASD the communication problems would be based around language and communication with others, not solely speech sound production. The other issues you describe - wanting everything in it's place etc - really don't sound unusual for a 3/4 year old (I forget exactly how old Lucy is). Obviously noone can say over an internet forum - your child 100% is or isn't on the spectrum - but certainly what you are posting isn't ringing alarm bells.

Thanks TotalChaos. From what I've heard from you all, it seems that autism is a very misunderstood condition.
I think 90% of people would describe it as
Not wanting to communicate
Not wanting any physical contact or affection
Not liking change
and lining things up in rows etc.

I'm glad I've learn't more about the condition.

MLL - of course no one can say via the internet.
Many many features of asd are apparent in children/peers without the condition.

Having said that your description is my son absoloutely to a tee aged 4. He copes very well with change now though.

Could be

DS3 is exceptionally cuddly- but within his own rule- ie he will snuggle up when he wants, or put a time limit on it.

Have a look at the NAS (national autistic society) website and search for the triad of impairments.

but don't scare yourself- each and every one of us is somewhere on the spectrum of ASD. if you're a certain distance along yu can get a dx is all. I have loads of traits and am on the orerline; there are some wonderful posters on here who have a dx.

kids on the specrum often do well- but eve better if they get the right support early on

I had the pleasure of interviewing the headteacher of a special school, I was also given a tour and shown all the different classes and got to meet with the children. Some were preparing to enter mainstream, and for some the care element took up 90% of the day.

At the time, the school was about to move into new premises, and a school for children with autism move to their old premises. Authorities had considered joining the two schools, but they had analyzed the situation and decided it would not overall be a good mix with children from these two schools.

I think you need to relax mummyloveslucy, the education authorities will not mix children into a mainstream school if this is not suitable for all the children. It would not make sense otherwise. Some will do fine in mainstream, some will do fine in a special group in mainstream, and some will do better in a special school.

I understand your concern, but children will always be children, wether they have a special need or not. My son came home with 4 big scratches on his face yesterday, I was shocked, to say the least. The perpetrator was a child in his class. This happens all the time in schools, sadly. The benefit to YOUR dd is that there are staff at her school who is well educated to deal with all sorts of behaviour, not just autism. It can only be a positive thing.

Oh that's good then, I didn't think so either. I'm just wondering why my mums friend thought she might be.
When she was little, she was evry obsesive about certain things and had huge tantrums if somthing wasn't as she expected. Eg if she sow someone from nursery in town and she couldn't understand why they were there.
This could be just her trying to make sense of her life and trying to gain some control. At the time my mums friend met her, she was like this a lot.
Since being at nursery, she's calmed down so much. She even joins in at birthday parties now, it's fantastic.

I think a school with a special attached unit for autism will have a lot of specialist knowledge and support for children with asd. This should be of benefit to the whole school.

Unfortunately this kind of specialist support is not available in all primary schools and in schools which do not have specialist help there can be a lot of problems. I would certainly see this kind of facility as a plus point when choosing a school.

yurt, i didn't mean that i was concerned that some of his behaviour would rub off on DD, just worried about some of his outbursts as he can be very physical and strong is not the word! If its bad behaviour rubbing off then its probably the other mum who should be worried as DD is definately a bad influence on HIM. I think that what you say about your sons school is really sad actually. I would imagine that your children don't even pick up on any problems. As i say, im not even sure if this little lad is autistic, i have thought it for a long time as he seems to tick so many of the boxes (was worried about DD for a while as she has speech delay), his mum did take him to the peadiatrician this week, i didn't pry too much butthe impression i got was that they think he is just a highly intelligent little boy who gets frustrated quite alot. I think there is something going on with him, his mum has mentioned aspergers. I think the peadiatrician exam was to secure some funding so he can have a one to one carer at playschool school as this is the situation where he really struggles. The only thing is, he does interact really well (apart from the outbursts) on a one to one basis, with some children, my DD included (partners in crime!)so would this rule out autism? He certainly does eye contact with me and talks to me happily (my DD on the other hand buries her head in her hands or my legs if anyone dares to talk to her).

ds1 is severely autistic - 9 years old and non-verbal etc, so the other 2 definitely notice that he's autistic.

yurt, im sorry, i hope i haven't upset you in my ignorace. I am probably like lots of other people who put autism in a box and think its cut and dry. It has been something that has "interested" me as i have had concerns about DD in the past. As someone said we can probably all find traits within ourselves that put us on the spectrum. I often wonder if children are labelled with autism in situations where they are simply shy and sensitive, or is it the other way around?

triad of impairments

so shynes wouldnt do it alone, no

no, no you haven't upset me. DS2 and DS3 talk about autism quite a bit. DS3 (aged 3) likes to tell people off if they look askance at ds1 "he's autistic and he doesn't understand". He can be quite vocal and protective!

So Mumblechum didn't actually bother to apologise then?

Can all of the judgey people please just be quiet or stop reading. I've heaard much worse things than bless them and her dd has sn, so wh are you insulting her, god knows? I am so sad that a simple question can't get answered without people writing rude remarks. Shame on you!

To the OP, I'm sorry that some people have nothing better to do than write rude remarks. Please don't worry for you're dd. My dd is sn and I WOULD honestly be worried if she were in mainstream. I think if there is a sn unit and the children are regularly mainstreamed that the teachers should be aware of possible problems. It sounds like you've chosen a good school for your dd.

lol. and with that, topbitch closes mn.