How would Autistic children in a class effect my daughter ?

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi, I'm concidering a primary school with a specialist unit attached for children with autism. They are in the regular classes as much as possible and they play with the other children at play times.
I just wondered how it would affect teaching for the rest of the class? I know that autistic children need a lot of support and attention, bless them and could be disruptive. I also worry about supervision in the playground, as I know form experience of working with autistic adults that they can become violent and be unpredictable.
I want my daughter to grow up having an understanding and tollerence to all sorts of people, but I do think I'd worry about her as she is very tactile and very sensitive. She is also very easily disrupted.

Sorry MLL, I see you've been made explain that comment already.

If my dd turned out to have as little empathy as Xenia, I'd feel I'd failed her in that respect.

PoppyFox- I've explained that "bless them" is an affectionate term I use with my own daughter and all children. Autism had nothing to do with it. Everyone where I live uses that term all the time.

Very sorry to anyone who's been offended by this term.

Oh, we must have cross posted. Glad you understand.

Mummyloveslucy - to answer you OP.

My DD had an Autistic child is his class for 3 years during infant school, and to be honest I think it was only of benefit to him.
This particular child had 1-1 support constantly and I noticed (when helping out in the class) that having an extra adult in the class was a positive to everyone. While this particular child could not always sit still at carpet time, etc, I don't feel she particularly disrupted the class to any degree. I would be quite happy to have her in DS's class for a further 3 years.

There is a boy in DS's class who is on the spectrum. He has a TA in the mornings which I think works out well for the other children. Partly because she is a very good and dedicated TA. But it is the largest class in the school and she usually works with the boy's group not just him, also does reading at lunchtimes with other children and as she moves up with each class she provides continuity for the other children.

Thats great, she actually played with a little boy from the unit when we went to the school. He was absoluitly gorgeous, and Lucy really liked him.
I've heard over people talking about problems they've had in schools, and just thought I'd find out buy asking people with experience- you.

My DD goes to a primary school which is integrated with a SN school on the campus. They probably don't have the level of support that they NEED, TBH, but it is a great school and she is learning lots about different people's needs and how different people interact. Children of that age don't 'see' disabilities IMO - they just see "Sarah" or "Harry" and sometimes Sarah or Harry can be a pain in the arse sometimes. But the good thing about an integrated school is that all the teachers should be more understanding of the issues and more able to deal with them than perhaps teachers in a "normal" school would. At least one hopes so.

My point was that people were objecting to the poster's suggestion she might not want or should be concerned about the autistic child in the class and I was saying I want my boys in a class only with boys and only clever boys at that and no distrutive children . SO my point wast that plenty of parents in a sense want their children educated with a certain sort of other child even if that is just high IQ or same sex or non disruptive or only roman Catholic or whatever and that there's nothing wrong with wanting that for children.

As for whether special needs are well met in the private sector as I say Ruth Kelly obviously thinks so and there are good private schools for various kinds of disability and some parents have even founded their own schools.

Whether parents when picking careers or potential parents should bear in mind what money they might need if they have a child with disabilities or even a child for whom they'd like to pay fees is another issue again. In some ways women who earn more can do better for their children (or who marry rich men) and women who pick minimum wage work because that is their love when they're 18 or 21 do need to htink to the needs of their children when the parent is in their 30s and 40s rather than perhaps follow selfish need of a career they love but which is very well paid (or too many nights out at the disco and poor A level results in consequence)

I noticed that when I read a book to Lucy last night, there was a little girl in a wheelchair at the end.
She said "Oh look mummy", I thought she was going to mention the chair but she said "she got pretty hairband". So it's true children don't seem to notice. I was very pleased.

OH MY FUCKING GOD.

I can not beleive the OP has been treated like this by som posters on here.

Mumblechum to correct her spelling is simply bloody rude - who gave you a red biro and appointed you as English teacher?

The OP was asking a genuine question and raised some valid points and she has been flamed by the fucking PC brigade on here.

Sometimes Mumsnet makes by blood boil

I don't see any flaming by the PC brigade. I see some parents with children with SNs being upset at what they saw was an intolerant or patronising OP. When it was clear this wasn't the case I saw plenty of apologising, and MLL seems to have got the useful advice she was after. Mumsnet at it's best I would have said?

1 / 86 (iirc) kids are asd, many not dx'd until over school age

your child is guaranteed to have some in her school

(thanks btw, needed this )

I see your point xeina but I didn't CHOOSE my job for selfish reasons or anything. I do what I can do. I have no qualifications apart from those in care work. I don't go out drinking ect, I never have. (sad as that sounds), I'd give my right arm to send her to a fantastic school with one to one support and all the extras.
She has a devoted family and it totally loved. That probubly meens more than anything.

ok to be more constructive- (soory but over sensitive atm and have strong reasons- see aibu)

sorry if wrong

'In my experience, all the autistic people I've worked with have been violent. Maybe that's just where I worked?
'

i ave 2 asd kids, 1 is violent. the other is the biggest teddy bear imaginable. he second is the only one severe enough to possibly end up in an asd unit.
the kids in the asd unit will all have appropriate levels of care in place.

but I can actually empathise with you a bit: my first job was in an asd unit- I had to leave as I was having issues with a client who attacked me. I was terrified of asd for a bit, then had my boys (4, 2 asd).

what I learned was this:

1. all people are human. all humans have the potential for kindness or aggression given the right circumstances.

1. asd kids need extra support but vary in their pesonalities as much as anyone

1. by mixing kids and wanting to learn who they are as individuals, not dx's, we gain massively for our kids and our communites

send your child. first sign of a problem (in unlikely event) tell the school as theres always solutions. but do give it a go.

You see this is the great thing about Mumsnet, people can learn form other people and their experiences.

I will peachy, definatly.

I will peachy, definatly.

I will peachy, definatly.

LOL at Xenia- missed you!

seriously, her flaws remain the same:

even if we all earned mucho poundos, a school whic is selective couldn't admit them all or it wouldn't be selective!

in order for ms success to go breaking down the barriers, there usuall need to be ms normal x 12 in the background, working in nurseries, as cleaners, in shops etc etc etc

its all bolony

Hi MLL,

I have posted and/or read your threads before as I have a DS with a serious speech disorder and language processing problem (CP, etc). Here are some random musings...

Does Lucy have a statement? (genuine Q) My DS is currently going through process, we will be going to tribunal as the LEA have made some very poor decisions.

I always wanted DS to attend mainstream school, he is currently at a nursery at a pre-prep. (btw jajas the school are doing their utmost to enable DS to get a statement and remain supported within their school) But for his type of speech disorder he is better in a specialist speech unit attached to a mainstream school (so similar to the ASD one you have seen) - there is one fairly locally we are fighting for a place there.

A standard mainstream school would not be right for DS, it would be like me attending a school where the main language was Japanese when I only had a few words of the language (clumsy anology, but do you see what I mean).

Do you have a speech unit near you?

To reassure you about the school with the ASD unit, some of my DS' friends from the SN nursery went to the ASD unit attached to a local school BUT only those who were deemed able to cope within the m/s educational system. Several are at the local SN school as they need more support than could be offered in m/s.

I do think you are very anxious, but with the best intentions as you seems to want the very best for your DD. You do realise that if she goes to any school, be it private or state you may, one day, have to buy her a pair of jeans .

went to the ASD unit attached to a local school BUT only those who were deemed able to cope within the m/s educational system. Several are at the local SN school as they need more support than could be offered in m/s.
'

find out how it operates- some work like this. the one we have close is different. Al asd kid there are assess3ed and are allowed to dip in and out as needed (if possible- not always)

ds3 is a confusing bundle of love and is in ms atm, I suspect he will go sn at either 7 or 11. But if he were in thi school they'd probably integrate him for pe, maths and IT but only if the teache could handle his talent at IT and cope with his obsession for it!

right now he is happy where he is and happily oblivious to his differences and the little battles behind the scenes.

Obviously I'm in favour of selective schools so I don't have problems with selection.

But it's not true my children are separated from the rest of the world. Even selective private schools have a range of ability in them and they know children out of school and as for children whose parents weren't from England there are more in their school than in some local state primaries which largely seem to be either white or black as parents choose my house price or religion in the state sector around here. If you want children mixed by religion and race you pay. It's being just with boys and just with reasonably clever boys that I think I pay for, certainly not racial or religious segregation.

mummyloveslucy,

I work in a school with quite of a lot of children with autism of varying degrees. Each child is different and is affected by their autism in different ways. They are all individuals with different talents, personalities, hopes, dreams etc.

Autism causes a triad of impairments. For example children struggle with speech, social interaction and changes in routine. They aren't necessarily violent. Infact I think people with autism often get physically bullied by nt people than the other way round.

Sometimes communication difficulties can lead to tremeous frustration. The lack of communication I think makes it really hard to learn social norms. However I think this true of a lot of children with speech problems whether they are autisic or not.

For example my son had an assessment for autism because his pre school wanted to exclude him. He found out that he was not autisic but deaf! My son didn't attack anyone but wouldn't stop running about or follow instructions.

In our area the local authority often takes the piss. Ie. they will do anything to avoid paying for an outer county placement or an SLD school for a child with profound autism. There are one of two children children I know who are violent, but they are desperately frustrated because they cannot access the curriculum. I am sure that their behaviour would calm down if the LEA was prepared to pay 100K a year for the kind of provison needed.

Even then the one or two violent children tend to attack their teachers rather than other children. The people in the firing line are usually those who are pushing the autisic child out of their comfort zone to make them learn.