Experiences of Welsh-medium schooling for children from non-Welsh-speaking homes

[westernavenue]

DH and I are both English and moved to Wales for uni. We’ve stayed on and raised our family.

The local Welsh medium schools seem a lot better than the English ones and we can’t afford private. So we’re thinking of sending our little one (almost 2) to the Welsh primary and then assess on secondary later on. Most speakers around us are 2nd language so DS wouldn’t be the only person who doesn’t have the language at home.

Has anyone had any experience with education not through their first language? We’re slightly put off by our neighbours who had two extremely bright children but felt they didn’t quite reach their potential at school because the high fluency never came naturally, as well as resources being more limited.

Keen to hear people’s experiences on Welsh medium education from a non-Welsh background.

My cousin went onto study Welsh at university so for her it worked well.

All 3 of mine went through Welsh medium primary and secondary. My DH is English and speaks no Welsh, I speak a bit conversationally.

Most of the parents had limited or no Welsh at the schools ours went to.

I definitely don't feel like mine struggled to reach their potential. They pick up the language so quickly. My two eldest both got good GCSE and a level results and went on to uni.

There are so many advantages to having a second language. In lots of countries it's entirely normal to have kids attend schools where they have that opportunity. I feel like the UK is such a country of monoglots it feels like a bigger issue than it actually is.

Both mine went and as adults are fluent welsh speakers. In reception i was able to pick up words and sounds so could help with reading but learning up to age 7 is different in Wales as it is very play based. I would send dc to Meithrin if you can so they naturally begin to understand welsh. Ours was a completely positive experience. We moved when ds was 9 and he was fluent in 6 months, our younger ds started from nursery so just naturally picked up the language. I never felt excluded and school info was always in English as well.

We moved to a very Welsh-speaking bit of Wales when Dd was 3, Ds a baby, they’re now nearly 9 and 6. School is Welsh medium, they start doing English as a subject from year 3. Both now speak Welsh fluently and make fun of me because I’m still at the baby’s first words level of Welsh. I think they both found the first year a bit tricky but the teachers were so good at encouraging them but using English in tandem with Welsh if really needed.
School communication with parents is all bilingual, there are a fair few families who speak English at home like us.
School is very good but I would say not mega academic so we might consider moving Dd, who’s brainy and needs more challenging, for secondary. Trouble is the nearest mixed-language secondary is quite far for us and not as good ofsted-wise. (This is potentially outing but current school comprises secondary and primary).
So I think it depends on the school. Check what the rest of the curriculum is like. Around here everyone is Welsh-speaking and the teachers so far have been excellent. But I wonder in less Welsh-speaking areas if the pool of great teachers who can also deliver lessons in Welsh is a bit smaller.
Anyway feel free DM me if you have specific questions etc Pob lwc!

Would the assumption be that they’d just pick the language up?

@imfreeee yes simply through immersion and using it everyday. I found it fascinating how quickly dc absorbed welsh just through hearing and using it every day.

I know someone who teaches at one, where half of the (admittedly, very small) class are from English-speaking families who want their children to be able to speak Welsh. I also know a couple of the English-speaking parents who sent their children to Welsh medium schools. They are amazed at how quickly their children have picked up the Welsh language, and some of the first-language Welsh children have picked up bits of English from their new friends, too. Some of their parents are trying to learn Welsh, but their four- and five-year-olds are quickly outstripping them with their language skills 😂

A friend who came from an English-medium background said that the only minor thing was that her mum couldn't understand her homework, so she would have to explain it all in English to get any assistance!

As someone who is persisting with learning Welsh, it's a gift if anyone learns Welsh as a child, as it is a tricky language to pick up when you're older!

Great for mine at primary level, although both went to a mainly English secondary they both ended up in Welsh speaking further education colleges. I worried loads about it but it was a none issue in hindsight and they both now use Welsh for work / hobbies etc

My three went through an entire Welsh medium education supported by me their English mum, their father is Welsh speaking but not in the home apparently or when it comes to helping with homework so that was always my job (sorry, did I not say 'ex-h' 😆). Sorry which is to say they essentially came from an English speaking home. Two went on to uni and didn't struggle at all with education in English at that level for the first time. We live in a Welsh speaking area and they are all very proud and happy that they are bilingual.

French homework through the medium of Welsh was a nightmare for me though. I didn't understand the words on either side of the page in the books 🤦🏻‍♀️

@IHateAlzheimers this is really reassuring for me, thanks. My children are both still in primary but I’ll admit I’m wondering how they’ll fare later.

I went to a Welsh medium school and neither of my parents spoke Welsh. I felt a bit annoyed sometimes because they could never help with homework. I also think that I'd have learned better in my first language and therefore got better GCSEs and A levels. It was difficult at uni because I'd learned e.g. mathematical concepts in Welsh so I didn't have a clue what they were talking about suddenly having to switch to English terminology. Having said that, I do like being able to speak Welsh and it's helped me get jobs in the past.

One of the good things about going to a Welsh medium school was that the default 'naughty' thing to do was speak English, so pretty tame compared to what goes on in other schools.

My best friend went to one from a completely non-Welsh speaking family, loved it and is now working in a primarily Welsh language job and bringing her own child up as a first language Welsh speaker. Really positive story.

Wales is the lowest achieving nation in the uk. It’s well recognised some dc struggle with Welsh. I’d be moving away. Ok if you want to teach and you need Welsh, but there’s far more higher paying careers that don’t need Welsh away from Wales. I’d prefer dc to get the best results they can in their first language and one that’s understood almost globally.

@LassoOfTruth The number of suitable teachers is definitely an issue. Vast numbers of good candidates are excluded!

My kids have both gone through welsh language schooling from an English speaking household. At secondary level they had the choice of a fully Welsh medium school or a dual stream school, and we chose fully Welsh medium as we though the immersion of the whole school day, extra curricular etc being in Welsh was important to keep their fluency.

They have continued into sixth form at the welsh medium school, however, maths and sciences are available taught through the medium of welsh or English. If young people are considering STEM subjects at uni, they are advised to consider switching to the English medium option at this point to be secure in the terminology while there are bilingual teachers available to support that.

We live in an area with many first language welsh speakers and it will be an advantage to be able to speak welsh if they want to live and work in this area as adults.

@cheerypip And if they want a better paid job away from you? What’s the point in having lower exam results?

I know a lot of people who have done this

The only problem is when working and writing letters often their written English - thinks like sentence structures can be a bit off.

As for level of education there not a massive difference

All school correspondence is sent from n both English and Welsh for those who have non Welsh speaking parents

There are definitely downsides people don't tend to talk about.

You need some grasp of welsh to help with their reading.

You won't understand school plays etc.

In reality our choice for secondary was made already as neither child would consider leaving their friends.

It's easier now the kids are pretty fluent and I know more how things work..(there are different things to get your head around like eisteddfod).

I love the community aspect of it though. For musical children there are loads of opportunities (not mine unfortunately)

We did have a tough few years when dd1 had sen unrecognised by school and was struggling with reading and writing. Now she's doing brilliantly though.

Yes, our secondary has recruitment issues in some subjects

And it's also less obsessed than testing than England. No SATS craziness here..
And an early years curriculum that's more based around play.

@VividDeer Sats just shows where brighter people live with their dc. Results follow higher educated parents. We had Sats but it’s nothing like the 11 plus! No one cares about Sats except the schools.

I didn’t want my dc playing extensively in YR. Nursery had done that. My DDs were ready to read so school cracked on with it. I don’t agree with Dc being held back because some aren’t ready. The results are suggesting Wales needs to change.

To be honest, in our area the Welsh medium schools overall gain better results than the English medium schools, which is what the OP was saying as well. My DD did exceptionally well in her exams so being educated in her second language hasn't held her back, and she has both options open to her.

I do accept there are a minority of children who really struggle with languages, who may not meet their full potential in Welsh medium education from an english speaking background. But that isn't the case for most children and it isn't a reason not to give it a go in the first instance, esp in OPs case where her child is only 2.

Overall though welsh dc are behind English dc. Like in England, schools vary! Dc vary. I’d not move to Wales and think the education was better.

Fair point!

Not relevant to the OP though as it sounds like she's already settled here and choosing between the schools available where she lives, not an English school in England vs a Welsh medium school in Wales.

Edit to add I have local friends who started their children in English medium primary and came to regret that later on as it significantly reduced their options for secondary. At age 2, the OP has little to lose by starting in Welsh medium and seeing how it goes.

It’s a mixed bag.

Where we are, near a university in North Wales; the best schools are where the professional Welsh families send their children. These schools teach both Welsh
and English to a very high standard. The English is often taught to a higher standard than schools that are more English or bilingual. The good middle class Welsh secondary schools tend to be smaller and that has advantages in KS 3 and 4.

The village secondary schools that are mainly Welsh have poor outcomes. We drive past the village schools to the better ones in the University city. Primary schools are varied. The curriculum is weak, so variability between schools is high.

Two out of three of my kids have thrived in Welsh medium education. They attended very good science universities in English.
They read a lot in English at home.

We can help just fine as needed. All homework is set bingually, even in Welsh schools.

My main complaint is the faff around the Urdd. They spend lot of time watching and celebrating the most confident native Welsh speaker recite.