Secondary schools for a girl chorister

[Londonbabyland]

DD has joined an advanced chorister program that lasts Y4-Y8 which gives students a pathway into music scholarships and choral places at top independent schools. However, this has been the case for boys because girls have only been introduced in some cathedral choirs in the past 1-2 years,so many of secondary school options with advanced choral training aren't available to DD. She has instruments too (piano grade 5 at age 8 + starting 2 more at basic level). Academics are strong too.

Which secondaries are keen on this kind of profile and could offer the best support choral/music wise with potential scholarships?

Her primary goes up to 11 so unless we home ed 11-13 we'd look for 11+ entrance.
Location is flexible within London.

Considering both state and independent (with support).

The state options suggested were St Marylebone Girls and Henrietta Barnett (not sure how big the music offering there is) and with many single sex schools becoming co-ed e.g Westminster School, Wetherby (entry at 11 and 13),I wonder which ones are worth booking the open day for?

Pointers appreciated.

What is your priority, music or academics, and within music is it choral or instrumental training?

HBS has no choral training and is not particularly big on music in general, and music is irrelevant for HBS entry.

Piano is not an orchestral instrument so top schools would require a higher standard for scholarships but second tier ones would consider piano too, I guess.

What is your reason for starting two more instruments? I'm asking because my DD plays three instruments and practice workload is huge. Could be a bit easier if two instruments are fairly similar eg violin and viola but they still need practice. You have to be really committed to music to want to do that, and achieving a decent standard on three instruments is usually incompatible with top academic results unless DC is exceptionally gifted in all areas and lives a very regimented life.

For proper choristership and continuing vocal training in seniors I would look at cathedral schools and boarding.

My son is a chorister and we’re starting to look at senior school options, looking for good academics and a strong enough musical tradition that he will continue to be stretched and that they will give us a generous bursary! We have been told that it’s good to have a shortage orchestral instrument that they’ll really want, and to concentrate on getting that as high as possible alongside piano and singing - this might be better than going for three. As for school choice, the advice we’ve been given is to look for boarding schools with a strong chapel ethos. Most of the day schools don’t put as much emphasis on chapel music so won’t be as impressed with a chorister. We’re looking at Cheltenham College, Bradfield, Wellington and St Edward’s. They all say they love choristers and they’re all co-Ed. If you’re in London and reluctant to consider boarding, Bradfield, Wellington and St Edward’s all encourage weekly boarders.

@Ubertomusic thank you for your insight. The additional instruments (wind) are for orchestra participation and DD wants to try two and retain the preferred one later,so I'm with you that it's extremely demanding to play all three at a good level at the same time. Well done your DD!
Academics are important but a more round education with string music and arts alongside academics would be a better option. DD is keen on learning organ once she's tall enough and many of choral teachers are also organists, so in that sense both choral and instrument training are somewhat equally important.
There's Cardinal Vaughan school in London (for music/choir) that would have been perfect but the girls can only enter at 16 and there's a faith based criteria on top of music.

@anotherfinemess1 thank you for pointing the schools,will look them up. Not keen on boarding, so good to know they have day options. Have you looked into Westminster?

Westminster’s a great idea if she fits the academic profile but I know it’s one of the most competitive schools in the country, both to get in and then to be happy there. It wouldn’t suit my son. It sounds like you’re doing the right thing musically, with an orchestral instrument (I know senior schools are more interested in double bass and viola because so many kids do cello and violin) and they’ll love it if she’s started organ. When you’ve had a look around, please come and tell us what you’ve found!

Oh I see... I don't know much about organ tbh but from what I've seen in London academics+choir+organ+two instruments seems a tricky combination to find in one place... I couldn't find it even without organ. I guess your best bet would be a good private school plus cathedral choristers say at Southwark. Super selective private schools would focus on academics though, even if they have strong music too. My DD went to one of them and it was difficult to balance academic workload and music practice even at primary level. HBS would not be compatible with multiple instruments at serious level (by serious I mean pre-conservatoire standard, not just grade 8).

St Paul's Cathedral School goes up to 13 but then you'll need to fill the 13-16 gap in. It might give you more time to consider boarding though. King's Canterbury goes from 13 and is not far from London.

St Paul's Girls has an organ as far as I remember and their music is strong. 11+ entry is very competitive academically, music will need to be beyond grade 8. Girls seem to manage academics and many learn two instruments at Junior Departments, they are probably all exceptionally talented and hard working. Scholarships are honorary but they offer generous bursaries if you qualify.

Multi-instrumentalists often go to specialist schools eventually, just to get more time to practise within the school day and do all instruments and singing in one place to reduce logistical hassle. Purcell is just outside London, they're not cathedral school though so I don't know what they can offer to organists and choristers. It's not very academic but you could go as a day pupil and top up with tutors at home. Wells Cathedral School has decent if not stellar academics but it's in the middle of nowhere. I would go to open days at specialist and cathedral schools anyway, just to have an idea of various options further down the line. Your DD might want boarding when she's a teenager 😁

@Ubertomusic thank you for such a detailed and incredibly useful answer. I wasn't aware of Southwark choir past 13 but there seem to be opportunities,so thank you!
St Paul's looks fiercely competitive although you are right that it's worth a shot. I'll have a look at the others you mentioned. Did your DD pursue music-related further education?

You're welcome :) There are quite a few choristers and multi instrumentalists on MN music thread, I'm sure there are more insights if you ask.

My DD is still young and has more aptitude for dance but has to focus on music for the time being, for various reasons. Professional music is a tricky pathway so I'm trying to keep her options open with academics too, but I find it hard to manage tbh. As they get older, there are lots of clashes too with external projects e.g. DD had to miss a good residential project on one instrument for NCO on another, national choir may clash with wind camps etc. It gets very busy in senior school.

@anotherfinemess1 thank you for the tip re instruments. The girls are novelty in Westminster, so not sure if dd will fit in 4 years time though I heard it was cut throat academically at key entry points. Will keep you posted. Good luck to your DS in his pursuits!

@Ubertomusic your DD sounds very talented. I hear you re being busy - had to say no to chess tournaments and martial arts competitions since choir took over weekends. Hopefully, DD could balance music and academics in one of the schools mentioned the way your DD seems to have succeeded in doing. Wish your DD all the best. Sounds you are doing amazing work supporting her talents.

https://www.choirschools.org.uk/school-and-cathedral-list/

is a helpful list.

In and around London without boarding include
-Whitgift in Croydon will be taking girls soon so worth exploring
-Reigate Grammar School and the Godfrey Searle choir
-Westminster

@Seattleinfotation thank you for the list and tip. On it.

Surprised to see Henrietta Barnett, not exactly well known for being a musical school, dd's best friend goes there.

What year is your dd in and is she singing at a Cathedral now?

@totwelvetunes DD is in Year 4 and yes, she's on a cathedral chorister program.

Have a look at Chapel Royal where the girl choristers are educated at City of London School for Girls.

@whereswaldo thank you for suggesting

@whereswaldo Chapel Royal only has boys as far as their website says.

I am not aware of very many schools who have choral scholarships for girls really. If you are considering academic schools with a particularly strong music offerings, I would look at Alleyn’s in Dulwich (co-ed). Less academic than St.Paul’s but still strong, and the standard of musicians is very high (often the scholarship holder I would call a ‘prodigy’, although most musicians there are not!). There are always a couple going to either oxbridge music or the big music schools. As an anecdote, Alleyn’s students have been finalist in the Young Musician of the year previously. Trombone/low brass and oboe are always in shortage if that helps, and scholars can be asked to take up a third instrument in shortage I believe.

it’s a school that suits independent learners and innovative in its approach (less traditional than others) - so worth a visit to check whether is a match. It suited one of my children down to a tee but I would never send the other!

Chapel Royal St James’ Palace rather than Hampton Court. They’ve only started I think last year but I saw them sing at Chapel Royal in June and know they’re educated at CLSG. Let me see if I can find a bit more as agree the webpages are a bit opaque!

https://clsg.org.uk/news/remembrance-sunday-at-the-cenotaph/
This was one of their first outings I believe.
I’d contact the Director of Music at City Schools ( who oversees both CLS and CLSG and CJS schools) and he might be able to point you in a helpful direction.

Last thing from me! Temple Church also has girl choristers so might be worth finding out where they are educated and work backwards?
https://www.templechurch.com/music/the-temple-church-choir

I would also suggest St Paul's Girls' as a potential option. They have an organ and also a very good auditioned choir (Paulina Voices). That's for older students but there is a lower school version too (Cantamus). Paulina Voices performs at the Royal Albert Hall and St John's Smith Square etc pretty regularly. If you wanted to get an idea of the standard there are some tracks on Spotify. Grade 8 isn't necessary unless you wanted a music scholarship, which is mainly for the glory and would not attract much money. But they do offer bursaries which can be pretty generous.

I'm not entirely sure what you are looking for. Private or State. I take it you are in West London as you mentioned the Vaughan, so assume you are open to state schools.

Other than applying to be a full scholarship day/boarder student at a Cathedral school the only other music schools I know of that are state are also boarding schools (Chethams and Purcell) - although they operate on a sliding scale so aren't necessarily completely free to everyone.

Private schools will vary a lot as to what they offer and you really would have to comb through them. Again there are some boarding schools that are top notch but most would encourage an outstanding student to join a Saturday music school at one of the London or Northern conservatoires

State schools that I know offer music in West London are The West London Free and Twyford CofE. Both offer a music scholarship place regardless of where you live or your faith.

I don't know much about WLF other than they get fantastic exam results and are very, very strict.

Twyford is a specialist music school and is part of a trust of 4 schools, of which 3 (I think) are designated music specialist schools. If your daughter gets a music place (off the top of my head I think all schools combined have about 50 places so it should be very achievable) your daughter will find lots of extra curricular music, will get a reduced instrumental fee for her orchestral instrument, extra scholar music lessons and can join the 'elite' trust wide choir (which I've been told is superb). hey also get stellar results and so there is a lot of homework, so music scholars do miss out on other things, as this commitment will mean they have to do extra music (2.5 hours extra a week) so there is little time left for other clubs.

Chiswick school is also gaining a reputation for music but i think this is more contemporary and I think their scholar places are only open to FSM students.
In North London Camden school for girls also offers music places and I think Fortismere might but I couldn't tell you anymore than that.

Sadly I think the Vaughan and Oratory will be off limits even at sixth form, as they have their pick of applicants from practicing Catholics, so unless you are willing to convert and go to church every week it's unlikely your daughter would be offered a place.

Hope that helps

@hothousingforsats thank you for such a detailed and insightful reply. I'll certainly explore the schools you mentioned. I'm open to both state and private, but if a state school has the choral/music provision alongside academics, it could be a better choice overall.

@whereswaldo thank you! I see what you mean now re Chapel Royal and will reach out to them and the Temple.