Does independent primary actually matter if we’re aiming for private secondary anyway?

[BookAndFood]

Trying to understand the real difference independent primary makes (WCP/Squirrels, Rowans, Hornsby House vs Bishop Gilpin) — would love honest experiences
We’re choosing between a few options for our son and going round in circles, so I’d really value people who’ve actually lived this rather than more prospectus reading.
Our shortlist: WCP (Squirrels), Rowans, and Hornsby House on the independent side, Bishop Gilpin on the state side (which came out strongly on academics in our own research). We already have a Rowans place secured, so the real question isn’t “can we get in somewhere good” — it’s whether the independent route is actually worth it for us, or whether we’re paying for something we could get another way.
A few specific things I can’t work out from websites and open days:
1. How much does an “accelerated curriculum” at a WCP/Squirrels or Hornsby House level actually translate into a different kid by age 11, versus a strong state school like Bishop Gilpin? Is the gap real and durable, or does it wash out once you’re both prepping for 11+?
2. Does anyone have direct experience of a child moving from Bishop Gilpin (or a similar state primary) into a very good private secondary? How common is it in practice, and what did it take — tutoring, scholarships, just the kid being strong academically?
3. Assuming we’re aiming for private secondary either way, how much does the independent primary itself add — is it mainly about 11+ preparation and exam technique, or is there something else (confidence, breadth, networks) that a state primary genuinely can’t replicate in those years?
4. This is the harder question and maybe unanswerable: everything about what will matter for our son’s future — which skills, which networks, which kind of adaptability — feels like it’s shifting fast enough that I’m not sure “give him the best academic start” is even the right frame anymore. If you were choosing now, would you optimise for academics, for exposure to different kinds of people and backgrounds, or something else entirely?
A bit of context: my husband and I are both academic by background (we’d be happy if he wanted a very different path, genuinely), and we’re both immigrants so neither of us went through school in the UK, so we don’t have instinct for how this system works or what actually pays off later. We’re not precious about a particular outcome for him, we just want to make a good decision with our eyes open rather than defaulting to “independent is obviously better” without knowing if that’s true.
Genuinely appreciate any real experience, especially from people who’ve seen both sides play out.

I am a private tutor with extensive experience of the 11+ in London and South East.

In my experience, private primary school is a waste of money. Get a good private tutor for your child (start in Year 3 or beginning of 4 if aiming for 11+). Independent primary is a lot of money for not much added value vs a state primary with support from an excellent tutor.

We did similar state primary to Bishop Gilpin to one of the Hammersmith schools.

Pros - local, no/minimal homework, good basic grounding, local friends, relaxed environment without lots of competition and comparison. Lots of time for after school sport, music, drama etc which is where DC got the stretch (school was easy for them). For DC, one of these hobbies has become an important part of their life.

Cons - school was easy for them and didn’t approve of acceleration so they spent a lot of time reading as they’d finished their work, PE was much less than a prep and non-competitive so they were at a disadvantage at secondary school for team sports, language and music tuition was there but pretty basic. No CAT scores or advice on schools (even on Tiffin), so we went into 11+ a bit blind (we did our research and it was fine, but some guidance from school would have made it less stressful).

I think primary was the right choice for us. But if we had both worked full time a prep would have been a lot easier in terms of childcare.

I’ve just seen @Redset ‘s post. We did about a year of home prep for 11+, no tutor, and got offers from all the schools we applied for. So a tutor can be helpful but is not vital.

Thank you so much for the response! I’m super interested in your comment about two full time jobs as that’s our current situation. I was trying to balance between independent having more break (less weeks of term) but also having more covered in their clubs. My current job is very flexible and I can imagine I could do pick-ups and taking my kid to another activity but not if that means literally stopping work at 3 or even before that. I know there are nannies for after school and maybe that would work better for us. So many things to consider! But I really value your experience and great congratulations on your kid being accepted in all the schools and even without tutoring!!

I would urge caution here. Many of the children going for the very competitive schools (Tiffin for example) will have had tutoring for years, I have known some as young as 3 to be preparing for these schools… albeit that is on the extreme end. To guarantee a place at Tiffin you are looking at needing around 90% in their entrance examinations.

Thank you for your response! Do you think tutoring and an a very good state school is enough to get into let’s say Kings if he decided to go that way?

This is my fear. Also that the kids from independent schools are also getting tutoring in lots of cases. I don’t want to push him too hard but I want to give him the best opportunities to choose his path.

Yes, absolutely, but it will depend on several factors. You will need to see how your child progresses in primary school, if they are top of the class, tutoring may only need to start in Year 4. If they are towards the middle or bottom, you would need to start much earlier. I would also consider whether a very competitive, academic school like Kings or Tiffins is the right school. I’ve known some children to have extensive tutoring to gain a place, then the same children need to continue with a rigorous and often stressful tutoring regime to maintain on par with their peers.

I’m completely with you here and don’t want to push it on my kid. That’s why I think state may be better and if, but only if, he shows interest in one of those schools, to go that route.

We needed someone available from 3.15 most days to enable the activities, the after school childcare ‘club’ was often full and DC didn’t like it anyway. So yes, you’d need an after school nanny or someone else able to take them off to swimming or whatever some of the days, if you went the primary route. Drop off is also an issue if you need to commute, even with breakfast club.

I have a foot in both camps, as DS and DD went to a Prep and then got into super selective London Indies. However, I teach Year 6 in a state primary and my pupils regularly get into good London Indies with tutoring in Year 5.

You mentioned your kids getting into “very selective” schools and your pupils getting into “good” schools. Sorry to ask directly but those two types of schools you are referring are not the same tiering, right?

Our school gets 1or 2 children into SPS/Kings/WUS/SPGS probably every other year, but at least 10 into LUS/DC/PHS/WHS/JAGS/G&L/Emanuel most years.

A bit of a drop off in applications since the VAT and also since the birth rate dip means that children in our catchment area now get in to the ‘popular’ state schools, which wasn’t the case 3 or 4 years ago.

To get into an independent secondary your DC will have to sit an entrance exam. If they go to I dependent primary they get coached on the questions they will face.

You need to be aware of the falling birth rate and increase in fees, pre prep & Prep schools are crying out for pupils (including 1 you have listed), there is really no barrier to entry apart from being able to pay the fees so you may find the cohort is not of the ability / selectiveness that was there before. This will feed into private secondary schools and they are already taking steps to mitigate this - Kings Wimbledon is going co-ed and St Paul’s has linked up with Shrewsbury House prep school to create a direct link (as well as having its own prep). It’s really difficult to predict the landscape in 7 years time apart from the state selective secondary schools - Tiffin - being even harder to get a place at. I would stick with a state primary and a nanny to help with wrap around care and see how your dc develops.

These are very good points. I noticed the crowd out for pupils from one school and didn’t particularly like it. The fact that this will reflect in a different cohort is a reality.

You should be aware of the research done by University College London etc that at most the difference in grades at A level between Private and State Comprehensives' students of similar ability, is maybe half a grade at most.
That Comprehensive Schools do better for lower ability children than eg Secondary Mods do.

That at University degree level State Comprehensive students do better than students from private schools with similar A level grades.
Also, that State Comprehensive students with similar A level Grades do better than Private at Post Graduate level.

That many private schools have been trying to save money by taking their staff out of the Teachers' Superannuation Scheme. This has lead to a loss of staff to the State Sector.

You may be better advised to use private tutors if the school/child needs it at Secondary rather than spending a fortune on fees which you might in the end be better to use for post gradate study / house purchase etc.

Also incidentally some Universities (eg Oxbridge) are keen therefore to recruit more students from State Comprehensives.

Incidentally it may be better 'wider education wise' for your children to meet others from a different, less privileged background as many professions require an understanding of the problems faced by poorer families ( Law? Medicine? etc).

I am going to counter act the views on here. I was always of the view go for state primary and move to private for secondary. Until I wasn’t… and moved my eldest. Yes there is a bit of a difference re academics but the biggest difference has been behaviour. My daughter is doing work in 1-2 hours at her selective prep that was taking a full week of lessons at the state. She is being taught science and French by specialist teachers, she’s getting much more attention. And she’s being prepped for the 11 plus in school. The creative arts and sports provision are incomparable with her primary. We haven’t yet moved her sister partly for financial reasons and partly because her class is better behaved so I’m not a ‘private or die’ type parent. However, I think the gap is quite a bit bigger than many would like to think.

@Bunnycat101 I agree that behaviour is another issue to take into consideration, my DC was lucky enough to have only minor disruption in class, but I know other year groups had a lot more issues.

And yes, the pace is much slower than at a prep - at the start of Y7 DC said they covered in 35 minutes what would have taken a week of English lessons at primary. Which they were pleased about, it wasn’t a complaint. But it meant DC had a lot of time and brain space for extracurricular stuff, which has been a really important part of their life ever since.

Does the Tiffin School give raw scores?