Daughter unable to attend her graduation ceremony as it is full. Advice please

[mildlyfried]

My daughter has just finished a three year Bsc (hons) at a major University. She has been advised that she cannot attend her graduation ceremony as it is full and she is on a waiting list. All the other ceremonies are at capacity too. She has been told that if a place does not become available then she can either try to graduate in November without her friends or have her certificate posted to her for a £10 fee.

To say we are upset and disappointed is an understatement. Has anyone ever heard of this before? I did not think a University would do this and would make sure they had enough graduation days/dates for all their students. The students have paid tens of thousands in fees and slogged for three years to be denied the chance to get their degree in a ceremony with their family watching.

Is there anyone out there with any advice? maybe someone who works at a University? I'm tempted to go to the local paper and tell the story so other students know what to expect at this University. Students should be told when they are choosing the University that they are not guaranteed a graduation.

Thanks for reading

Where to start

Are you suggesting that it is a possibility that every student responded at the exact nano second?

who know “first come first served” due to “limited space” would cause such confusion

It didn’t cause any confusion for all the daughter’s friends . It didn’t for my daughter nor my daughter’s friends.!

My older son went to the November ceremony because we’d booked a holiday that clashed with the July on.
It was packed!

You're confused because nothing in my post relates to everyone responding in the same nanosecond. I think you're mixing me with another poster. All OP's DD had to do was reply earlier this year, before they even had to apply for a place at the ceremony. I know how organisation of graduation ceremonies work. They plan for the numbers it's indicated they are going to get. Many other schools/faculties also have to plan. These things are months in the planning. You can't just magic up a new ceremony to fit in because people who didn't let you know they intended to come suddenly decide they want a place.

Apologies
I thought you were suggesting what others had…. “What if everyone responded on the same day”

and it’s not if everyone responded on the same day, it would have to be of everyone responded at the exact same nano second…. Which is patently ridiculous

you and I are on the same page. My daughter is graduating from Lancaster uni this year. It was importsnt to her and her friends that they graduated together in July. So they responded to the email promptly and took the explicit warning about first come first served seriously. The OP’s daughter’s friends did the same. The OP’s daughter…. Didn’t

Yes, exactly. At least Lancaster University seems to expect students to be organised adults, like your DD obviously was.

It has been the same for years and years and years.
Yes a few will be disappointed. But the few that are disappointed they don’t get the exact date they wanted will hopefully take from it…. Read instructions, respond promptly if something is important to you, don’t ignore reminders.

It’s not uncommon. When I graduated 18 years ago I had to wait until the following year for the ceremony. Our whole class did as there just wasn’t enough room for everyone. I had my degree and was working so had to take a day off!

It isn't standard in any if the universities i have worked at and shouldn't be. Students can attend if they respond by a deadline. I haven't looked at exact costs but if the university is using it's own accommodation and the students are paying for their owns gowns and photos etc it's not particularly expensive and students have paid at least 30k in fees for their degree.

The point is that even if dd's daughter got a place by managing to get one first someone else wouldn't if there aren't enough spaces for everyone. That isn't reasonable.

@Firethehorse What is even worse on this thread is the nasty attitude exuded from obvious staff of the University. When most posters agree a ceremony place should be guaranteed these posters become more personal, one even saying ‘I know you’. This is not acceptable on Mumsnet and actually really makes Lancaster come across as an uncaring and undesirable place to study. Do you really have this much contempt for your students? Until this point I believed Lancaster was a great University to study, having thoroughly enjoyed an open day with my DC.
Having multiple messages deleted by HQ and then an obvious pile on is not the PR you intended.

The 'I know you' was in relation to the OPs same post on the parents' FB group (of which there is considerable overlap with Mumsnet users); I can't be sure, but I don't believe there are any staff of the University on this thread.

There are a number of parents of students who have been through the process and know that, sadly, the OPs daughter did not follow the very well-publicised, well-established requirements for booking.

There are people like me (my DS is starting Lancaster in September) who have tried to explain that the 'by-college-by-faculty' graduation means that provisional numbers for each grouping fluctuate widely each year, to explain why some ceremonies end up oversubscribed with a waiting list (if students fail to follow the full process).

And then there are the usual cross-section of Mumsnet posters irritated that the OP hasn't acknowledged that her DD's actions might have in any way contributed to the issue, and rather than seeking suggestions to make the best of the situation, is trying to smear the reputation of the uni by 'going to the papers'. You'll know that there is nothing that annoys Mumsnet users more than entitlement, failure to take accountability and blame culture, and I think that is what you are seeing in the strength of support for the uni's position here.

(If your DC does end up going to the uni, just tell them to book early for graduation. I will be!)

If the graduand applied before the deadline then they should get a place at the ceremony. It makes Lancaster University seem a bit piss poor & chicken shit that they can't accommodate their graduands. It comes across that they took on more students than they could accommodate to get as much fee income as possible knowing they had exceeded capacity, which seems pretty scuzzy from a supposed seat of learning. It certainly lowers my opinion of the University.

It is not reasonable not to bother to read very clear guidance and then blame others for the consequences. The OP’s dd’s problem is of her own making, hence all her friends going to a ceremony without her. One can sympathise with the dd for the unfortunate consequences, but not with her unexplained apparent disorganisation/laziness/stupidity.

Did she register on time for the ceremony though? I work at a university, we would always fit people into other ceremonies, but students do need to register usually months before. This is because lots of people actually don’t go to their graduation ceremony and they don’t want them to be longer than they need to be. If she didn’t register they would have assumed she wasn’t going and booked the capacity accordingly.

I am not talking about OP ' dd specifically so your opinion of her is irrelevant. I am saying that it is not good that they apparently don't have enough spaces for everyone to graduate in July. They should run enough ceremonies for everyone to be accommodated in July if they respond by the deadline.

But what happens if say 50% of graduands can’t make it and one of the days is undersubscribed? These are costly events for the university.

Instead, they organise numbers by those who have sent back their RSVP and confirmed they will attend.

I'd go further and say I can sympathise with the outcome AND the unexplained disorganisation/laziness/stupidity - we've all mentally shoved emails into the 'deal with later' box, and sadly it sometimes has consequences - I did it myself last week over a recurring annual subscription that I don't use. What I can't sympathise with is the parent then blaming the university for this, and actively trying to smear the university's reputation by going to the papers. Is this even what the DD wants after a (presumably) happy three years at uni?

They didn’t.

Not enough space for that particulate date

If DD was 12 I’d understand

but this is a woman. Who read an email. Ignored it. Read the reminders ignored it.

whereas her mates? Read the email and responded.

as I say, my daughter said everyone knew it was first come first served and you had to respond promptly. So they did. Why? Because it was important to them

Firstly I am not sure that the ceremonies are particularly costly if the university is using their own buildings and students are paying for gowns, photos etc. What is the university paying for beyond maybe one drink and gown rent for staff? Secondly, the students have paid a lot in fees and the graduation ceremony should be part of that. Thirdly, ops child did respond by the deadline but that apparently isn't enough as there aren't enough spaces anyway and it's a first come first served scrum.

But it isn’t just about awarding the certificate. It’s what comes with that. The literature will most likely have people in gowns - they are advertising an experience. There is an expectation you will be able to graduate and do the whole gown etc. if they can’t deliver that, then they should make it very clear when you sign up to the course as it’s important to some people. I’ve never heard of a university not having enough spaces. This is an economical choice they are making.

When I was in uni many years ago, they tried to change part of the course half way through the degree. The part they wanted to remove was an additional certificate which was a huge selling point for this course. When they had a meeting, many of us talked of our consumer rights and would be seeking a refund as we would not have chosen this university (is wasn’t a great one but this certificate was great) . Funnily enough, they dropped the idea of removing it when a bunch wanted our money back.

I’ve also had money back from a university when they delivered a very substandard course. They argued it was fine, but the ombudsman was confident I’d win. They university settled in the end.

With the amount of money spent, universities need to remember they are running a service. If you don’t run it well, students can challenge and should.

As i said, another date in July would be reasonable but not reasonable to say they have to wait to November imo.

You have absolutely no idea! Graduation ceremonies cost the universities thousands - musicians, floral displays, dressing the venue, signage, security, event medics, printed programmes for thousands of people. It goes on and on. This money doesn’t come from the tuition fees as this all goes to the academic department to pay for tuition. Universities need to find the money to run ceremonies from a very very stretched central budget.

The OP says she registered before the required deadline, parents of Lancaster university students are questioning the veracity of that and claiming they know her daughter did not apply before the deadline (how would they have that personal and private info though !).

I think most of us are taking the OP at her word, she has emphasized that several times her DD followed the university instructions and submitted before the deadline (which is at odds with their own blurb).

The University says on its website it is a first come first serve basis due to capacity reasons,( which a lot of posters feel is very unfair) therefore a deadline is irrelevant and providing a deadline is actually misinformation, so if you want to graduate in person it becomes a scrum to get your request in and a ‘hope for the best’ in a first come /first served situation, rather than confirm your participation before the deadline and be guaranteed a place.

This is because lots of people actually don’t go to their graduation ceremony

Which is exactly what a deadline is for, at the deadline date you know how many are registered to go and you plan based on that, you don’t say ‘oh actually the deadline is not really a deadline because it’s first come / first served and all our spots are filled on day 1, the other 2,000 or 3,000 students need to do it at a different time, or speculate most of those 2k or 3k students don’t want to go anyway.

I do have an idea actually. I have worked at many universities and much of the work is done by internal staff who are just expected to absorb it as part of their job. Universities are not "finding" huge sums of money to run it at all. Do you work at a university?