Daughter unable to attend her graduation ceremony as it is full. Advice please

[mildlyfried]

My daughter has just finished a three year Bsc (hons) at a major University. She has been advised that she cannot attend her graduation ceremony as it is full and she is on a waiting list. All the other ceremonies are at capacity too. She has been told that if a place does not become available then she can either try to graduate in November without her friends or have her certificate posted to her for a £10 fee.

To say we are upset and disappointed is an understatement. Has anyone ever heard of this before? I did not think a University would do this and would make sure they had enough graduation days/dates for all their students. The students have paid tens of thousands in fees and slogged for three years to be denied the chance to get their degree in a ceremony with their family watching.

Is there anyone out there with any advice? maybe someone who works at a University? I'm tempted to go to the local paper and tell the story so other students know what to expect at this University. Students should be told when they are choosing the University that they are not guaranteed a graduation.

Thanks for reading

So discrimination now extends to not responding to emails or putting in the (tiny) effort to respond in a timely fashion….

As a parent who attended cycling proficiency certification and degree ceremonies for two ‘kids’ I can confirm there is quite a difference. If you don’t believe me ask any graduate.

Forgive me if I’ve missed this upthread, but are graduations run on a not for profit basis? We paid for tickets, gown hire, bought the cap, photos and a frame for the certificate.
I accept that some of those items are from third party suppliers but even so I’d like to understand the details.

How many times do I have to explain?

You send out an invitation to an event stating that you need confirm your attendance in advance as soon as possible so that all attendees and their guests can be accommodated.

You can’t be arsed to do that.

Them - surprise - no room for you at the inn.

They offer you another night…but hell no!!

So you post on MN and FB to bugger over the reputation of that establishment to rille up
a storm rather than accept the fact your child did not care enough to respond to multiple communications to book their place.

I'm wondering if op's daughter is not actually going to graduate at all, because she's not currently enrolled at the university in question and is using the non-availability of a ceremony to cover up the fact.

Not if they've offered her November. She won't be offered a place if she doesn't meet the requirements to graduate. Presumably OP has seen the email about the ceremony being full.

To be fair I think that’s a hell of a stretch and doesn’t correlate with with the OP’s Facebook posts.

Please encourage her to raise this with the Student Union! Ask for a meeting with the President, I’m sure they will raise significant concerns with the University

If you read the thread before posting I think you would revise your advice.

I think the university should ensure they have enough room for every student to attend graduation but seeing as they don’t it does seem they warned everyone first in best dressed. I don’t think the paper is going to do anything.

I suspect it was a case of students had indicated their intention to attend a ceremony (OP's DD didn't), the university planned the number of ceremonies to accommodate that number that came forward (ensuring they did have places for the number of intended, plus likely a few extras), called for registration for the day (indicating first come first served for date preferences, once full they would be given other dates), OP's DD tried to register (late even for that, shortly before deadline) but a place wasn't left over. She was told to wait to see if a place opens up or attend in November. That's what I get from it and it seems reasonable from the university.

Obviously, there needs to be a deadline, but If they have enough spaces for all graduates, it wouldn't need to be "as soon as possible". Fine if there's another ceremony in July, not fine if they have to wait to November.

OP, I work for a University. Its not uncommon for there to be limited space and for tickets for all to be first come, first served. That was clearly communicated, and an alternative date has been offered.

I think what you should focus in now is what do you want to happen? Obviously no student or guest is going to get bumped for you. Do you want to accept the alternative date and make the day special for your daughter, or do you want to sour the whole experience by kicking up a fuss which gets you nowhere?

However, it might be worth asking if there is a possibility that she could get in on the day if there are dropouts? At our uni there are always no show students, so it might be worth asking if its worth you booking academic dress and going along on the day on the chance that someone drops out.

I'm sure you know this anyway, but graduation is just a ceremony. Your daughter has her degree whether she attends or not. At some unis you dont get a physical parchment at all, and photos are usually done with a fake plastic scroll.

It's standard. A lot of work goes into these ceremonies and they aren't cheap. The DD should carry this lesson into the workplace and life in future.

She should stay on the waiting list, as likely there will be some who drop out.

If not, chalk it up to a life lesson, since it was very clear the places for graduates were limited by the capacity of the space available and "first come first served" basis. All her friends applied much earlier, therefore all got a place in the earlier ceremony. If some friends had applied later, they would presumably also be going to the later graduation event.

Not the point, but nearly all the time would be spent with her own family and the event itself is very long and boring.

I don't know why people lack reading comprehension. There was a deadline to apply for tickets. The OP's daughter applied before the deadline (but after her friends). She was in time applying.

What's the point in a deadline if it's meaningless and the university allocates seats before the deadline?

I'm a Solicitor and if I have a deadline of 4pm on a set day to file something, then I can still file at 3:59pm that day. No one says I'm late because I filed before the set deadline.

The problem is not the deadline itself. It's that they were asked earlier in the year to indicate whether they planned to attend a graduation ceremony. Based on that, they decide how many people there will be, so how many ceremonies they will need. OP's DD didn't respond to that. If other people have also done that (almost certain they have), then the result is they have made plans based on a lower number that decided that actually, they do want to attend in spite of not giving notice. Likely they have allowed some extra seats for this. OP's DD applied right at the end, so those extras will have all been allocated. This was so preventable by OP's DD.

We aren’t the one’s lacking reading comprehensions skills.

The answer: Because deadline is a HARD deadline, not a soft deadline? If you are a solicitor you must know the difference?

The deadline for booking a flight ticket is one hour before the checking desk closes. Even if they have a half empty plane, they no longer take any further bookings in that final hour. It is a HARD deadline.

The soft deadline is effected when there are no longer any seats available to sell/book: this is because the airline is selling seats from the moment the flight is opened on the system for booking. The effective deadline line is ‘whenever there are no seats left’, because they operate a first come/first served policy. A gradation ceremony, held in a hall/cathedral/arena or wherever, is no different in practice - there is a finite number of dates/times and seats within the building. There are a finite number of staff and man hours to administer the bookings, so it is an on-going process that starts when the booking link goes live.

As has been stated ad nauseam - the emails were repeated and stated this to OP’s daughter. She chose to defer responding and missed out.

So what if all the students had responded immediately? How would the university decide who to ditch if they still haven’t got room for everyone? It’s totally unreasonable. If necessary hold more ceremonies but make sure everyone who wants to go can go.

Aside from the risible suggestion that hundreds of students would complete their booking at exactly the same time - the Wonder that is Technology means that the booking system would simply place them in order by time stamp - down to the millisecond? You do realise that don’t you? It’s how booking systems for ticketmaster works, the grocery slot booking at Tescos (especially for the Christmas slots) and a billion other systems have operated for, oh, at least a few decades. It’s not actually rocket science, is it?

This is awful on many counts.
If you have successfully completed a degree course you should be able to attend a ceremony at the end of the course - it needs to be a given. Forcing students to compete against each other for a place is absolutely disgraceful; this is meant to be a celebration of what you have already achieved, no ‘life lessons’ should be applied here. As a previous poster stated - it’s basic respect.

I also agree ‘There are no real capacity limits of graduations, only a limit on how much the uni wants to spend....’
What is even worse on this thread is the nasty attitude exuded from obvious staff of the University. When most posters agree a ceremony place should be guaranteed these posters become more personal, one even saying ‘I know you’. This is not acceptable on Mumsnet and actually really makes Lancaster come across as an uncaring and undesirable place to study. Do you really have this much contempt for your students? Until this point I believed Lancaster was a great University to study, having thoroughly enjoyed an open day with my DC.
Having multiple messages deleted by HQ and then an obvious pile on is not the PR you intended.
I repeat it is not unreasonable to expect a place being available to attend your own graduation with your cohort be that course or house. The rest is just poor excuses.

It's very poor and unfayon graduates who have spent a fortune and put in so much work to graduate. Do choose the November graduation rather than having a certificate posted to her. Get the gown and photo with her friends for her. Post about this on the student room.

@Firethehorse but she CAN graduate and has been offered several dates - she just cannot have her preferred choice of the same day that may of her friends are graduating on…. Because she did not reply as promptly as they did and the spaces had gone for that date by the time she got around to it.

There is nothing appalling about this - the uni offered dates and she didn’t book in time. They don’t sit around in the admin office twiddling their thumbs until OP’s DD decides to complete the online booking form. It’s the real world.

To put it in the terms my DC would frame it: you snooze, you loose.

Valuable lesson learned, one hopes.

If all students responded to the first email indicating their intent to attend a ceremony (unlike OP's DD), then everyone would have a place whenever they responded. They'd have ensured enough ceremonies to accommodate them all.

Instead, they've looked at indicated need and booked the facility to accommodate that. Around all the other schools/faculties that also need to have their ceremonies worked in.

If everyone responded at the exact nano second… yes.

Seriously, I can’t believe this is causing such confusion