When do we reject state school place?

[JadeVS72]

We have accepted a place for our DD at a local private school for secondary. She also has an offer for our 2nd choice, oversubscribed state school.
When would you turn down the state offer? I am paranoid if we do it too soon one of us will lose our job and we will want to scale back and do state 😆 we will be funding mostly from savings but if something unforseen happened we might need those savings! When do most people finalise their decision?

@Nebulomania you really should count yourself very lucky that the dropout child dropped out, because it has graciously granted your child the opportunity to get the place at their preferred school eventually despite all the unnecessary stress and upset, even though their child (who didn’t want it) was more entitled to it. 🙄🙄 That’s how it goes according to Strawberrybubblegum anyway. Still can’t see it myself. I’m sorry some selfish parent held onto the place they didn’t want and caused such a stressful situation for your child.

Unfortunately I think some people will still hold on to their state school (after securing a private school place) regardless of how selfish they know they are being and will just tell people what they want to hear.

What timescale would have given an acceptable outcome for your DD?

I don't believe that you needed to know 6 months ahead of time (ie now).

How far ahead were the transition days? I'd expect that a week before term start would be appropriate - that's completely the school's choice. You could make more difference by encouraging schools to have all transition days just before the start of term.

Your time preparing an appeal isn't more important than a different parent wanting a backup. That's just life.

Parents can of course say whatever they like to ward off self-righteous people on their high horse, whose bad advice disregards their own children's best interests. But better to educate the frothers if possible, surely?

Then other parents in the same situation won't feel so much irrational peer pressure, or allow it to over-ride clear thinking..

@strawberrybubblegum at some point I hope you reconsider your own views, rather than deciding that everyone else is partisan or unable to think clearly. I doubt you will though.

And I hope that at some point our government and the mumsnet anti-private frothers stop deliberately throwing private school children under the bus - for no benefit to anyone, but simply because they hate what they represent and don't consider those children as deserving of consideration as non-privately-educated children (aka 'Our Children' - Bridget Phillipson, Education secretary)

It's just as unlikely.

Transition at DS grammar school started immediately as in 1 March of year 6. He received a handwritten card congregating him. He did early transition in June, July etc - the transition to secondary school is hugely pastorally important for most children. Schools know this, state and private schools. The data moves from state primary to secondary, they even visited him in person in state primary school.
This is why private schools get their intake in for taster days very early on and stay in touch too.

That was meant to say “congratulating” him.

The way I understand it is that private school parents get offers a couple of weeks before state school allocation typically and then they get their state school allocation. But typically it is the private schools that insist on them paying a deposit within days of state school allocation. So the pressure is coming from the private sector, not the state sector. And until many parents who are straddled between the two have both offers in hand and start doing the financial analysis completely openly and rationally, it is understandable that many will wobble at that point. I am speaking here about London where many people do have either state or private as a backup option and can get themselves confused very easily and carried away. As it is such a big decision, I do think it has to be made very carefully even if it negatively impacts the hugely important transition of another child in the system. So both can be right. A parent will always look out for their own child and as private education will be costing them 150k plus in housing deposits, unis fees, pensions, future security, it is under stable that parents will wobble.

If you read my previous posts I already said my kids are at private. I know this doesn’t suit your narrative that everyone who disagrees with you - ie pretty much everyone on the thread - must be partisan.

I’m not a frother, I don’t hate anyone. I just have a sense of fairness.

well said @minipie

A sense of fairness towards children hoping for a different state school allocations... but clearly no sense of fairness towards children who may end up without a state school place they need - and so bottom of the list, possibly out of area, exactly the circumstances @Hazlenuts2016 's friend finds herself in. All because their parents were pressured, bullied and shamed (with words like 'selfish', 'entitled', 'ignorant', 'reeks of privilege': all on this thread) to do something irrational. Pressured by other parents into doing something which brings little benefit to others and high potential harm to their own child.

Yes, I did read that your children are at private school. People often internalise it when constantly bombarded with hate towards a group they're part of. Doesn't make their view right.

I also saw that you're proposing 'at least turn down by the start of summer holidays'. Which isn't all that far from the few weeks before term starts I've said is probably the sweet spot.

But you're repeatedly aligning yourself with - and using the same insults as - all the posters saying 'right now', ''do it now', 'the day after offer day' (along with a comment that it was really selfish to wait until early in the holidays), 'straight away' ('Anything else is selfish'), 'reject the state offer asap'.

Ie 6 months before the new school year.

You're giving terrible advice to other parents and it's morally wrong.

Let's just hope that OP doesn't lose her job or have her DC's private school close down (like 4% of private schools did last year) in the next few months, eh?

Otherwise, she'll find herself in exactly the position @Hazlenuts2016 's friend is in - not the minor inconvenience of getting late view of their school place, but her own child not having a suitable school at all. @Hazlenuts2016 's friend didn't research school admissions properly (so nothing to do with people turning down a space later) .... but the OP actually had a place, but was pressured by people on this thread to give it up early. Same result though: no space at the best state school she could get. Not a late space: no space at all. Having to go to an out of area, unpopular school.

And if you're honest with yourself, you know as well as me that some on this thread would secretly be pleased at some 'privileged private school kid' getting 'what they deserve'. You won't be pleased - you'll be a bit sorry 'that's how things turned out' (as if you had nothing to do with it) - but you're amplifying pressure from people who absolutely will be.

Perhaps it's you who might reconsider the bad advice you're amplifying to other parents.

I think @strawberrybubblegum what you are failing to recognise in your analysis is the likelihood of different events happening.
If you hold on to a popular state place it is highly likely that not just one, but two or three families will experience negative effects. The first is that they and their child will experience uncertantity about the school their child will have to attend. They will have to accept a less favourable place that could be far from their home and require a difficult journey or have other negative aspects. They will have no choice, but to support their child in coming to terms with these negatives. Their child may be down or anxious about the prospect of the offered school. If this child could be offered their preferred choice they would release their offered school that another family may be hoping for and so on. It is a chain reaction. Alongside this there are issues about missing transition days (usually held well before the summer holidays - teachers dont work then) and buying uniform that won't be used.
This has to be weighed against the chance that a child is unable to take up their private school place. This could happen if the school closes, but parents can make a reasoned judgment about how likely that is. A small school with relatively low pupil numbers - this could be a consideration. The established over-subscribed schools with significant assets and surpluses - it really isn't a consideration. Similarly, parents will know if there is a realistic possibility that there will be a change in financial circumstances that will lead them being unable to take up the private school place in September. They will know about their savings and likely job stability.
If there is a realistic chance that a parent will not take the private school offer in September, then holding the state place is sensible. However, for many with an offer from an established school and who are in a secure financial situation releasing the state offer is very low risk and could help other families. Most people would be happy to do this, but others are unwilling to do so because they are not willing to take any risk themselves however small. Putting themselves first is their motivation even when the risk to themselves is tiny and the potential benefits to others are significant.
Children who are unable to take up a private school place in September will be allocated a state place. It is likely to be a less favoured one if they don't hold an offer, but it is not correct to say they won't be allocated one.
The idea that posters such as @minipie have internalised some self-hatred because they use private schools is a bit silly. Some people hold nasty views about private school users due to inverted snobbery. Others hold nasty views about state school users due to snobbery. Most people regardless of school choices take people as they find them and get along fine. Honestly private school users aren't 'bombarded with hate'.

I can’t be bothered to argue any more @strawberrybubblegum. Happily you’re very much in the minority.

That's a very balanced summary @Owlbookend .

Hopefully any parents reading this thread in order to decide their actions will read that and analyse their own risks, and do what's right for their family with suitable consideration for balancing risks and likelihood and levels of harm for themselves and others.

And ignore the 3 pages of 'selfish', 'entitled' etc insults which pretend there is no decision to make.

I also think people who are that nervous in the run up to starting private education really should not be going down that route. There is yet another war on, there will likely be inflation, who knows, macroeconomic uncertainty has been huge since Brexit and private education is now standing at 150k-400k. It is a huge amount of money against a very uncertain world, I completely understand why anyone would be worried. However, if it is a stretch and you are a worrying type and will be questioning it all and comparing to the free excellent state alternative, it probably just is not a good bet.
There are loads of people now trapped in private education penalised by the Government for their choices made in better times. That is a fact.

true @Araminta1003