Are neurotypical kids being left behind?

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A contentious question but with a lot of information in the media just now about funding for SEND kids and a push in the next few years for more neurodivergent kids to be expected to manage with an unclear level of support in mainstream, what does this mean for neurotypical children who are often not mentioned?

I can only speak from my own experience and obviously this does not apply to all cases nor is it a generalisation of all SEND kids but my child’s class has a lot of disruption in their class from SEND children who currently do have support including violent outbursts, screaming, throwing things during lessons etc

They say up to 40% of kids within a class now have additional support needs and for the kids who do not, it feels like they are considered less and less.

It doesn’t seem like the education system is working for anyone and I’d argue the new white paper is just as worrying for neurotypical children as it is neurodivergent as inclusion in mainstream, in my view and experience, is not working for the most part.

I appreciate how hard it must be for parents of children with additional needs and the fight that it involved but are neurotypical children being left behind in a school system where most of a teachers energy has to go into managing behaviours which will
only get worse with potentially less support in the years to come?

Lots of kids are being failed. Even SEND kids are being distracted and intimidated by other SEND kids. Neurodiversity includes things like dyslexia, it’s not just emotional or behavioural differences. There’s a large spectrum of needs and no one is getting the attention they deserve.

This is also my experience. Non disruptive children are more often than not left to their own devices while the behaviour of children who struggle to settle are attended to. It’s not working for anyone.

It’s not my child’s own class but there is another class within the school who have to have the whole class evacuate several times a week because one child is so violent in their outbursts that the other children have to be removed until they calm down enough to be taken out, it doesn’t make sense.

I agree and the inclusion policies only ever seem to mention ND kids, it worries me that the effects of inclusion policies on other children are rarely mentioned despite having a massive impact on them also. No one is winning.

Yes they are and I say that as the parent of a Sen child who has full time 1:1 support in mainstream. Because he has that level of support he can be taken out the classroom when he is overwhelmed so is potentially less disruptive than others but he does have tics that will disturb the class (and make him a target for bullying) ‘nice quiet’ girls are used to do social activities with him to try and develop friendships.

I’ve considered pushing for a Sen school but DS is very academic and the only suitable Sen school in our city is a, full and b, has a lot of kids with disruptive violent behaviour (similar to DS ) but DS would be triggered by them so I’m not convinced it would be any better. There are some lovely independent schools for semh but they only do 3 GCSE’s and DS could do a lot more than that.

Come on now. “Ruining” would suggest these services were doing fine when Labour came into power in 2024.

The truth is austerity and 14 years of chaotic government had already left various services in a state. One of them being education.

Not necessarily saying Labour are making it better and no doubt they, like their predecessors, may well make some foolish decisions which we must challenge - but let’s not pretend they weren’t in shambles before Labour took over .

I worked in education and youth services from 2009-2016 and since 2021 I do workshops in schools on ad hoc basis so I’ve seen how things have changed way before Labour. I saw an almost immediate decline in all things related to helping struggling families from 2010 actually. Initiatives and schemes for families and children that I used to signpost parents and teachers to in my former role, were being pulled back within months of the coalition government taking over. I was amazed at the speed of it.

The closure of surestart services and stripping back of youth services under the Tory-Dems really had a knock on effect on mainstream education.

100% yes.

The people saying their NT children are doing very well are irrelevant. It's the ones who need help but can't get it who are suffering. The ones who would really benefit from a few minutes with a TA. The ones who tread the line between pass and fail are not getting the help they need to achieve what they are capable of.

I'm not sure I'd say left behind, but Ofsted will only be talking to and exploring the progress and experience of vulnerable (SEND/PP) children in depth under the new guidelines. They say what works for the most vulnerable will work for all, but I think that sentence itself, though an admirable aim, is simplistic and rather unhelpful.

I think teachers will find it incredibly difficult to do all that is asked of them and cater to the needs and expectations of all children and parents. I firmly believe it isn't about knowing how to help SEND children, more about having the capacity to actually plan or implement any of it.

I wonder if the issue is the overstating of value of academia.

Because test scores are very easy to measure I wonder if the education system is too focused on those now rather on generating well adjusted and confident children.

There are many people who were not academic and have been very successful in non-educational systems. There are many extremely valuable jobs etc (food management, waste managment etc) that require practically minded and hard working people.

Support in school is not dependent on any sort of diagnosis, it’s not ND vs NT! Of the 40% additional needs about 20% are children without English as first language! @BungleandGeorge

So my maths is a wee bit shaky so anyone feel free to jump in here - but just to clarify is that 20% of those needing support which is 40%? If so, I think that means ESL kids receiving additional support only make up about 8% of the overall school population.

My experience teaching ESL to kids is that those kids soon learn English and do as well if not better than native English speakers within a few years or less. It’s very different from a kid who needs support for their duration of their education.

You are right that some kids receiving support are not ND though. for example, I used to work with kids in foster care and many of them -with no diagnosis of anything - needed support. I’ve also seen emotionally traumatised/neglected kids who are not in care needing support too. No doubt there are others who need or receive support for other reasons too.

I have to agree with this. I do not think people realise the truama to the brain of a child born into a chaotic/stressed/ neglectful family. Add in screens and these are the results.
Either way they are classed SEN.
I absolutely do not buy that we are more "aware" now. My dc are late 20's now and I remember 1 child in the whole primary school being disruptive. Over the last few years there has been an explosion of violent behaviours in primary schools all over the UK.
The government really need to step up and treat it as a national emergency.
Bloody hell, who would be a teacher
I doff my cap to you, thanks

Yes. The SEND crisis affects all children not just disabled children.

We need purpose built SEND schools and EHCPs because the allow the right support for the children who need them, in order to prevent classroom disruption, regulation, and everybody being able to access an education.

People who say well the money has run dry are being really short sighted about what this means for their children who they assume are unaffected by the proposed changes, and what this means in terms of extra work for the teaching staff.

This is a fight all parents need to get behind not just parents of SEND children.

Not just a UK issue. We are in a European school with DS (5yo) who has ASD and goes to an international (mainstream) school. Out of a class of 20 kids there are 4 with additional needs - either diagnosed or suspected. All parents are complaining. We have had incidents of NT children being violently attacked and a feeling that the teacher was trying to manage the kids rather than teach. Now we have 2 support assistants in class also which has helped. But parents attitudes make a difference- we have 1 child who clearly has undiagnosed SEN and is disruptive all day - frequently wets/soils herself, doesn't listen, hits, draws on walls, screams ans shouts, deliberately makes mess everywhere, says bad words etc and the school have tried to work with the parents to push for diagnosis, get them to come in to deal with the toileting issues and so far they have refused and said they can't see any problem and it's for the school to sort out but its causing so much disruption to the other children. We have some NT kids who are scared to come to school because some of the ND kids are quite physical. It's a mess.

Lots of ND students are very academically capable.

Local authorities are sending children with complex support needs to mainstream, against consultations.

I oversee the Y6-7 transition. We indicated that we couldn’t meet need for a child; so did their preferred specialist placements. The LA sent the child to mainstream.

The system makes no sense.

Yes I agree. Parent of several ND children, one with conplex needs. And working within education.

My older ND children did fine in school, one did amazingly by academic standards. But he is 26 and schools were more flexible then.

Now the LA is putting complex children in mainstream. I worked in mainstream supporting children who were non verbal, needing to use objects of referencd, PECS etc and who are overwhelmed by the environment. I was given zero training, even when I asked. I love SEN work so I did training for free in my own time and read and researched and learnt and then moved to complex needs school where I continued to learn every day! Plus my youngest child also has complex needs.

The issues are the curriculum (so the upcoming changes to that may help..)
staffing, funding, practical facilities. Local authorities flouting the law with zero consequences and same re academy schools with zero accountability who wont even make basic reasonable adjustments.

Also we never had the obsession eith attendance, many kids would have ended up out of school, be off rolled etc. And quietly ignored.. they didnt get an education but they weren't in classes.

And there were children wth needs they just in high schools got lumped in bottom sets and ignored, or were excluded.

Its a combination of more awareness but also schools having less and less resources, specialist being closed down, and school systems snd curriculum becoming more rigid. Add in covid, austerity all other services being cut, loss of sure start etc. Perfect storm.

Its NOT ND v NT, all children are being failed. Already seem some unpleasant comments in here, let's not make this another thread to blame the disabled for crisis in education system or to debate the 'worth' of giving children with needs an education.

@Tiptopflipflop - interesting about the Pandas. DS in year 7 had symptoms too and repetitively in years 2-5 on and off. Now in year 7 in a grammar school and thriving! We had tics, OCD, anxieties, UTI style symptoms, sleep issues, all sorts. But because he was quiet at school was expected to just get on with it and actually help others academically and model good behaviour. It’s too much for young children to have to help the staff out because they can’t cope with the curriculum/behaviour of other kids. If I had my time again I wouldn’t be sending him in 100 per cent of the time pretty much to endure that.

There’s 2 kids in my sons class both of who would absolutely benefit from specialist provision - I know both mums and they’re at their wits end with it all.
one has just been accepted for a forest school set up one day a week but they find that themselves out of the DLA money but it’s 2 hours away and he loves it there and wants to be there all the time but just not enough spaces for everyone who needs one they’re lucky to have got a day.

It must be awful for the teachers too. Difficult situation all round.

They “fund” that should say not “find”

Of the 40% additional needs about 20% are children without English as first language!

In England, EAL is not classed as an SEN. It is explicitly excluded in the legal definition.

Not sure how you justify megabucks on unfixable ND, absolutely no idea how to tell the horrified parents that. I’d be livid too. But ND doesn’t make you more important than your classmates.

If by ‘unfixable’ you mean cure, then that doesn’t mean it can’t and shouldn’t be supported. Some DC in wheelchairs will never be able to walk. That doesn’t mean they can’t and shouldn’t be supported. It isn’t about being more important. That is quite an ignorant view.

Those who object to money being spent on educating DC with SEN outside of MS yet also object to DC with SEN disrupting their DC in MS; what do you suggest?

Those who object to spending money on provision to meet the needs of DC with SEN are shortsighted. The right support in the shorter term can save money in the longer term.

I think the problem is now such that those without SEND are struggling to the point that they are developing emotional difficulties themselves? And what is more teachers are having to focus on the kids from the poorest backgrounds because they know that those with SEND but stable home environment will just somehow fill the gaps/make do.

I agree with most of what you’re saying but I don’t see anyone here blaming or attacking disabled kids. For me it’s about considering the needs of ALL children so that everyone gets the education they deserve… not looking likely with the state of the current system or with the latest plans.

Read back through the thread. Comments likd this.. "Inclusion doesn’t work much.
Whether it’s the least worst option I don’t know.
Not sure how you justify megabucks on unfixable ND, absolutely no idea how to tell the horrified parents that. I’d be livid too. But ND doesn’t make you more important than your classmates."

Basically saying ND cant be fixed so why shpuld we spend money on these children. There have been several other threads where similar has been said. Mainstream media is pushing a narrative of blaming send kids for rising costs, whether its for alternative provision, therapies, transport etc. Its tedious and its classic diversion tactics.

Yes.
If the same amount of individual attention was given to the average neurotypical child they would all achieve very highly.

Well I can’t speak for others and everyone has the right to express their opinion based on their experiences. I don’t agree with the ND can’t be fixed part and not to spend money on it etc and I fully understand why thats triggering. The thread was intended to see what parents of NT kids feel about the current system and proposed changes, it feels like they’ve been forgotten in all of this planning.

Perhaps the issue is more to do with how disruptive behaviour is dealt with and managed more than NT over ND, which is something I’ve taken from some really useful discussions here.

Yes. The term ‘neurotypical’ doesn’t help because it implies that unless someone has a diagnosis, they’re part of some homogenous group. Which they aren’t. Every child is unique and will have their own strengths, challenges and ways of learning.