14yo school refusal and DS is being violent towards me, don't know what to do anymore

[Bdireas]

Sorry this is long and prob all over the place but my head is a mess right now. My ds is 14, just started year 10 last week (he turned 14 in the summer) and we are already in a nightmare with school. He just will not go.

Since Monday its been a battle every single morning. He stays in bed and refuses point blank to get up, pulls the covers over his head and tells me to f off. If I try and pull the duvet he lashes out, kicking and shouting. On Wednesday he shoved me so hard I nearly fell into the wall. Yesterday he threw a shoe at me when I was begging him to at least just get dressed. He ended up not going in at all 3 days this week.

Thing is it hasn’t come out of nowhere. In year 7 he was okish at the start, not top of the class but he went in most days, had detentions for forgetting homework and talking too much but teachers said he was clever if he applied himself. By year 8 it got worse, he started saying teachers hated him, getting isolated a few times for arguing and answering back. They rang me loads to come and collect him cos he refused lessons. He got one suspension last year for swearing at a teacher and walking out of class.

Now year 10 is GCSEs and he says he cant do it, its too hard, he doesnt see the point. He says school makes him feel sick. He said on Monday morning “I’m not going, I’d rather be dead than sit in that place again” and then he slammed his door so hard the frame cracked. I was shaking after.

At home it feels like all the anger comes out on me. If I try to take his phone at night he will grab it back off me, pushing me out the way. He towers over me shouting right in my face. He has called me a bitch more times than I can count. My younger dd (9) hides in her room when he starts, she says her tummy hurts when he is like that. I feel like I am letting her down too.

School keep saying he needs to be in or they will fine me but I dont no how I am supposed to physically get a 14 yr old boy who is taller and stronger than me out of bed and into uniform when he is threatening and hitting out. Last year they mentioned maybe CAMHS or behaviour support but nothing happened and the GP said waitlist is massive. I feel like no one listens until it ends up in total crisis.

His dad is useless, he sees him once every month or two and just says I need to be stricter, but when I try to set rules ds just goes nuclear. Dad never sees that side. He just takes him for Nando’s and buys him trainers so of course ds worships him and hates me.

I am so ashamed. I feel like other mums cope fine with teenagers being moody but mine is violent, refusing school and making my life hell. I dont no what to do anymore. I’ve cried nearly every night this week after fighting with him. I feel like I am living with a stranger, not my little boy.

What's he doing during the day when he's not at school? I'd be turning off the WiFi and removing all devices if you're not already doing that.

he just sits on his Xbox all day if he’s not at school. I try to take it away or switch the wifi off but then he totally loses it, like full on rage, shouting, slamming doors, even grabbing the controller out my hands once. I feel like I’m constantly walking on eggshells cos if I push him he just explodes and it ends up ten times worse. Sometimes I just leave him on it cos at least then he’s quiet and not screaming at me, but then I feel guilty cos I know I’m making it worse in the long run. I honestly don’t know what the right thing to do is anymore.

Have a look on the “not fine in school” Facebook group lots of advice on there.

This must be so stressful for you OP and it sounds like you're doing it alone.
He sounds anxious and distressed- would he go to the GP?
What are school doing to support your son? Is there any alternative provision for his education?
Sending best wishes - been there. It's awful

I know this kind of thing gets bandied about a lot in response to these kinds of posts, but this sounds very much like ADHD to me (I speak as someone with ND children). The gradual build up of not being able to cope. The 'clever but not applying himself'. The forgetting homework, talking too much.

He's spent years trying to do school (and failing, because his brain can't cope with meeting the expectations - especially the executive function ones) and now he's burnt out. Burn out can often come out as extreme anger. It does in my ND child. And now your DS is displaying EBSA (emotionally-based school avoidance).

I would talk to the school about it in these terms. Talk to the SENDCo if you can. It's not that he 'won't' go to school, it's that he 'can't'. If he fails to attend for 15 days, then the LA has to put an alternative provision in place for him. Google EBSA and your LA. These are the guidelines for my area: https://localoffer.eastsussex.gov.uk/assets/documents/EBSA-Guidance-for-Parent-Carers-and-Children-and-Young-People.pdf

For now, I'd stop trying to force him to go. It's not working. It's adding to the stress. Just leave him alone and let him 'come down'. Google 'low demand parenting'. It's the only thing that works when my DC is this dysregulated.

And yes, the 'not fine in school' FB page is useful (although I found it quite overwhelming).

Sorry but this awful advice! This boy clearly has a history of finding school difficult, this isnt just a case of being naughty for some children being at school is difficult. The school environment isn't made for all children and often breaks them. Punishing a child for struggling is not fair, it wont make life any easier. As a mum who has experienced this, I know its not easy happy to chat if you need to talk about, I dont really want to post details here but happy to tell you in a private message.

I am so sorry this is happening.

Could you send him to live with his Dad; and get the wi-fi out of your house permanently while he is away?

There must be something badly wrong. Is there anyway you could afford a private psychologist who deals with school refusal?
It is called
Emotionally Based School Avoidance now.
https://www.google.com/search?q=School+Refusal&rlz=1CDGOYI_enES868ES869&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

In addition to the above though, he needs to be supported to regulate whilst also having consequences.

You may need family support/children social care support if he’s being violent towards you. He will need to learn that this isn’t ok, at 14yo, you cannot force him to regulate, he has to be part of this work, speaking from experience of having worked in specialist settings/children social care and therapy teams.

violence towards you is not acceptable regardless of ND or not, and it creates a difficult issue for adulthood if he thinks he can do nothing/be actively aggressive and be supported to do so.

Some options are online education provision,flexi schooling, alternative provision (although depending on LA can be very hard to come by without an EHCP and hard even with one due to limited space), 14-16 colleges, or even home education.

When DS is calm there needs to be a conversation about house rules and plans going forward.
Limited WiFi during the day, he needs to problem solve for himself as well - what does he think the solution is?

There has been some good advice above re SEND support, but speaking from a therapy point of view, therapy isn’t always the most effective for cases of EBSA /ND young people! He would need to actively want to engage in therapy and complete some work that would likely involved a level of exposure to the things he is avoiding. A systemic change is often needed, for example education change/change to parenting style/social support, but DS is old enough to be involved in this now.

I’m so sorry you are going through this. I would not tolerate violent behaviour, no matter how difficult he is finding school. If he won’t let you take his phone, stop paying the bill. That can be a consequence. You don’t have to be physically stronger than him to put that in place. Say he can have a phone contract when he starts treating you with respect. If he still gets violent with you, call the police. He has to learn this is not acceptable.

The right thing is to remove the wifi and if he becomes violent call the police. He’s totally taken over and is controlling you.

Sorry OP it’s really hard to give the nuanced advice you need as ideally you’d have someone looking at every aspect of his life/your parenting approach/wider systems and support available in your area

His dad needs to step up. It isn't fair that it is all on you and isn't fair on your daughter. Suggest he spends some time living with his dad.

My first thought was he’s likely got anxiety or
something else going on and needs a more holistic approach than just forcing him to school, which you’ve established isn’t possible anyway. Schools aren’t really equipped to support you in exploring this. Is it worth doing a vita minds self referral or seeing the GP. I doubt anything will move fast relying on the NHS.

Sounds like you’re having a really rough time OP and I’m confident it’s nothing you’ve done. It must be really hard having 100% of the responsibility pushed on you when like you say, you can’t force him.

This, seriously needs consequences for violence NOW. School refusal aside, he's controlling what he does all day in the home too. School isn't for everyone but then he shouldn't be wasting his life and brain rotting in front of a game console all day, they're so addictive.

OP, I don't have time to reply properly now but take a look at my responses on a similar thread, as some of them may be relevant

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5409497-ds-moved-back-in-and-im-fed-up?

And then if you have any more questions, reply to me in your thread and I'd be happy to respond.

Totally agree. My nephew was refusing school for a while because he just couldn’t stay off his Xbox! So very addictive … up all night on it, couldn’t leave it alone. And the more he was on it the more violent and aggressive his behaviour became.

His dad definitely doesn’t help, he hasn’t even got a room at his dads so it’s not like he could realistically live there, he just crashes on the sofa if he stays over which is maybe once every couple of months. I think dad likes being the fun parent and not dealing with any of the day to day stuff.

He was originally meant to start back on the 4th but he actually had a stomach bug then so he was off genuinely poorly the first couple of days. But then Monday this week he just flat out refused, no excuse at all apart from “I’m not going.” On Tuesday I managed to get him in after a massive row and he went in looking furious. School rang me at lunchtime saying he had walked out of a lesson after swearing at the teacher. Thursday he did go in but then apparently refused to do any work, just sat there with his hood up and when they told him to take it down he stormed off.

So even when I somehow get him through the door it ends up like that, and then he says “see I told you it’s pointless, I can’t do it.” I just don’t know how to make him see he has to try. I’m so drained.

He's suffering EBSA - emotionally based school avoidance, or some people term it emotional barriers to school avoidance.

Firstly, the approach you're using is not working. He's getting so worked up, he's being physically violent, probably because you're in his room trying to physically make him get out of bed. I think if you immediately remove all pressure, you'll find he doesn't then feel the need to escalate to violence. I don't mean roll over and take it - i mean, pick your battles, don't force him into school while you work out together with him what the problem is and how it can be addressed. You're turning the home into a battlefield. If nobody's actually listened to him before, it might take time for him to work out what the issues are.

Sounds like school is very happy to put the blame on you/him and make noise about CAMHS without actually doing anything. They have a legal obligation to make adjustments for children suffering EBSA. What have they done so far?

Clearly he's masked and masked and now he's unable to and he's now being blamed entirely for being unable to go to school but has anyone done anything to really dig down into why he's unable to go to school? He's at the point he's expressing suicidal ideation over school - can you see how continuing to keep up this level of pressure where he feels like he would rather die is unhelpful?

Most children with EBSA are neurodivergent.. Mine are AuDHD and PDA for example, and they've expressed similar thoughts and actions although they're younger. What's working now, is a period of time of school to recover from autistic burnout followed by a fully supported, neurodivergent friendly approach to a return to school after a long period of me advocating for what they needed. We had to fight and fight for school to put in any reasonable adjustments, but now they have, it's tentatively working and we have so many fewer meltdowns.

You can ask school to refer you to services such as Early Help, and school and/or you should look at what SEN Support he might need and if that fails, EHCP. you don't need a diagnosis of anything, but EBSA to the point he's suicidal shows theres a significant need.

Some useful resources on social media - at peace parents on Instagram, Dr Naomi Fisher for ebsa, and neuroteachers on Instagram for what kind of adjustments and approach might be needed for a child like yours. The not fine in school Facebook group is excellent as well.

So even when I somehow get him through the door it ends up like that, and then he says “see I told you it’s pointless, I can’t do it.” I just don’t know how to make him see he has to try. I’m so drained.

It's really hard because society tell us we are a bad parent if we don't force our child into school. You're not a bad parent and he's not a bad kid. School doesn't work for every child. School can be incredibly damaging for some children. He's gone into GCSE now which is the most pressure he's probably felt in his life, he can't cope and he needs help.

If you can take a step back and try and let go of the "my child must go to school and i have to get him there by hook or by crook or I'll be punished" mindset, you'll see there are tens of thousands of children just like yours up and down the country who struggle with school. Some are home educated, some are struggling on in school, some are supported in mainstream with SEN support, some are in special schools and some are in alternative education provided by the local authority.

The school system is set up for conformity and crowd control and teaching a curriculum that is decades out of date. Forced into contact every single day with people who they might not like or who might be bullying them. Its no wonder that increasing numbers of children struggle to attend school. If you had a job that made you suicidal but someone forced you in every day, would you do your job willingly? His nervous system is screaming at him. That's why his mental health is so poor.

If you report your child is absent through mental health then it should be marked as authorized for illness and you should not have to worry about a fine. Take him to the GP or do a telephone appointment to talk about the fact that he's suffering ebsa. This will help to avoid if you do get a threatened with fines - it will show that you've done everything you can to support his mental health. My child's school were marking us unauthorized for a time because they didn't believe they had SEN, even though we had medical evidence. then we were told by the local authority that we wouldn't be fined because we had documented evidence that their absence was due to mental health. So get it on the records, if he can't make it into school then give the reason as mental health or anxiety because that's what it is. No child chooses to live like this.

Your poor daughter. I think you should have a break and he should stay with his dad for a while, even if that means sleeping on the sofa. It is totally unacceptable that he is violent to you and there is no excuse (adhd, whatever he can not begin allowed to behave like this).

mine scraped though years 7-9 and when the GCSE pressure hit in year 10 things fell apart. It wasn’t that she didn’t want to attend, it was that she couldn’t due to anxiety and overwhelm (undiagnosed adhd and autism). The school was awful, pressurising me to home educate her (ofsted and LA strongly disapprove of schools off-rolling children). Part of me wishes I’d stood my ground and got the school to look at alternative provisions with which they could fulfill their educational obligation. In the end we withdrew her and home educated. She did a lot of holistic grounding stuff - forest school, crafts, animal care, along with functional skills maths and English. It was more about healing and enjoyment than education. She’s now 18 and working, has a good set of friends, more self confidence and much happier in her self. It’s been a long lonely road however, we were let down by school and CAHMs.

Yes I was made to feel like a bad parent for her poor attendance, the school talked of forcing her through the school doors no matter what and struggled to understand that mental health and safeguarding were a higher priority for me (she was suicidal with pressure to attend school)

Completely agree with this. Yes he is struggling at school, but the violence at home towards you is scary and needs consequences no matter how hard they are in the short term.

It sounds like school is making him suicidal, not uncommon with asd type boys (about 40% get suicidal and a similar number of parents due to the constant threats and punishment approach) and there's pretty much nothing out there from cahms/school/LA unless you can pay privately until they attempt suicide/are beyond broken. No adult made suicidal by their job would be expected to go to work and then punished at home. Its why we have record NEET numbers as the system is completely broken and failing children like this. Some schools are better than others, or withdraw him. I would not tolerate violence but he's a child desperately needing help and not getting any from school and a largely absent dad.

Right, so what do you suggest? My teenage son started to display similar behaviour back in the late 80's. He was 14 years old and 6ft tall whilst I was 5ft and 7 stone. My ex husband saw him occasionally and, just like the OP's ex, was useless. My son was an only child who had previously been bright, loving and happy and all of this came out of the blue. To say I was beside myself is the understatement of the century. Back then there was no help at all, no CAHMS or anything like it. The only intervention I received was a visit from the School Pastor who told me I was immoral as a divorcee and that my middle class, educated background had led me to spoil my child. In desperation I took my son's games console away along with all other "privileges". He pushed me down the stairs, stabbed me and knocked two of my teeth out. He was subsequently diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder in his mid twenties. I'm honestly asking what you would have done in that situation.