Private school pupils banned from work experience in hospitals

[beelegal]

“Pupils who want to be doctors 'barred' from vital work experience at NHS hospitals - because they go to private school”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15007121/amp/doctors-work-experience-NHS-hospitals-private-school.html

This will be extended to all civil service jobs.
Bridgitte Philipson is a nasty bully. What next, private school pupils to sit on certain sections on buses? I cannot wait until the next general election, this shower need a wipeout.

I have been through private myself and my brother and my children go and so I think I know a lot as well and whilst you might know the sharp elbowed parents who network a lot, most of us are busy working to pay the fees and so have barely any time to even make it into the school let alone meet the other parents. I never got a single thing from any contact at my school and none of my friends did either. My DD missed out of work experience this year as I have no one to ask. Like I say, she’s make a great doctor but no work experience so far. Not been told who to go to, I have no one to ask. Not a single person. Medics have contacts regardless of school.

As they should.

Exactly. For example, the thought that the children who go to the same London state schools as Starmers children/ Goves / Blair’s the rest of them, have the same education and opportunities as those kids who go to a comprehensive state school in Toxteth, is laughable. Embarrassing for Labour really that they think the public don’t know the difference.

Yes. The barriers may well be being brought up, not down. It’s what Labour deserve, social engineering doesn’t work. The sad thing is it’s not what any of the children deserve.

*ps I know most of the public don’t actually consider this at all. It helps only politicians to use the state vs private school trope. As if all state schools are the same. As if all PSs are the same.

Our private school took in many refugees from the Ukraine as pupils. Most didn’t speak much English. Will they be penalised too? Just another example.

Those who are on the left don’t you realise the risks here? Seriously?
Private high paid jobs in law, banking, IT, wealth for private school kids only.
NHS/civil service reserve for “state” and ever more of a divide between the state and private sector, until the right get their way - a destroyed NHS and massively cut back state sector.
If 20% of kids at Sixth Form go to private schools, by all means reserve just 20% of NHS to private school kids. But the NHS is paid for by everyone and if you want it to survive (and the large public sector), make sure it is open to everyone.

This isn’t even about private and state school pupils or privilege. It is outrageous that public sector bodies are allowed to discriminate full stop and that politicians are encouraging them to do so, because they have not invested enough in poorer communities. It causes division and solves nothing.

But why was the pupil not given at advice by their school?

There is no excuse for heads to behave that way.

That may be where you live. Where I live the fees are more like 15,000.

I had a joiner one day three years ago who covered over a boiler with some mdf, badly, and was charging £1200 for the four hours it took. I got it down to £1000.

How much are many people paying on family holidays? A term’s worth of fees?

Not all people sending their child to a fee paying day school are rich. Also, some people at such schools are poor and get there with bursaries.

There are however extremely disadvantaged children in desperate parts of the country who need help long before the stage where it is time to get work experience or they many not even see the chance when it comes, but I hope this scheme at least helps some.

If this student is smart enough to go to Oxbridge and is a great STEM student, all the information is available online and there is no excuse if they choose wrong A levels. If in doubt, email the admissions - is this beyond the capability of an A level student ?

This is spot on!

I wonder how many of the posters who are so vile and against private school students sit in the admission panel and have influence on university admissions ?

Not many schools offer substantial bursaries or scholarships. I think we could have just about scraped together funds to send perhaps one DD but it's then all the extras - expensive trips, mixing with people with a very different lifestyle, the commitment to funding this for several years - what if one of you became ill or had to cut working hours for some reason? I had to work part time when DDs were younger and my dad was ill, and before that I suffered from anxiety and depression and had a career break. Then it would mean a poor quality of life generally to afford the fees. I just thought it was too much, many others would not be able to make that sacrifice even if on paper they might be able to afford it, as it is too much pressure.

You're assuming they understand the theory of 'wrong A Levels'. Don't forget A Level choices are made at 16. With no one around them to guide them, they just picked their own choices. A 16 year old considering A Level choices (in the March/April of GCSE year), without parental / school guidance is absolutely NOT going to email uni admissions for somewhere they might think about applying to in 2 years time. Particularly not somewhere as intimidating as Oxbridge when you know no one else who has been there.

Yes, a child with those around them who knew enough about it MIGHT. More likely, their parent would have helped them draft an email. But children who don't have that home/school environment wouldn't have a clue.

Your attitude just exemplifies a total lack of comprehension of the lack of cultural capital for working class students without family in either professions or who have even considered university themselves. Maybe try to sneer a little less.

Nice try - but equality would be judging each individual on their individual merit and abilities - their socio economic background, skin colour sexuality, religion etc etc are completely irrelevant.

It should be the best person for the job, role or place - nothing else.

Let's be clear "positive discrimination" is just plain old discrimination.

But when the discrimination only worked one way, benefitting only the already privileged, it was acceptable. It's only when the have-not-oiks get a leg up that it starts being protested by the haves.

There is no need to be rude and assume things about me. I do not come from a privileged background and help and guide many state school children in getting admission to medical school.

All information regarding required A levels are online, most open days are uploaded on you tube.
Even if you don’t want to email, all I am saying is that the information is freely available.

Clickbait headline IMO. Most NHS trusts will run a widening participation scheme for students who may not have the support from home in terms of knowledge. https://www.hee.nhs.uk/our-work/talent-care-widening-participation/widening-access-participation-wap

These schemes help students who are probably very capable but might not have had all the resources available to them in high school. Yes independent schools are a choice for parents and should remain so. The majority are not in the same price bracket as Elton etc and if parents want to send their children to them they should have that choice.

Did you take my point on board though?

A student selecting A Levels, in an under privileged area with no support, BEFORE sitting GCSEs (which is when A Level choices are made - you would surely understand that if you support children in uni choices) is not going to know they should be emailing potential universities to ask about A Level combinations for specific courses.

This is absolutely lack of cultural capital territory, which is what this whole discussion is about.

I wouldn't have had a clue at 18, let alone 16. I was hugely lucky I didn't screw up.

As pp have said, private school kids are not being banned, the NHS are just creating schemes to encourage more state school kids to go into medicine. I don't see this as discrimination or a bad idea.

Going to a private school is a luxury whether you struggle to pay for it, have a bursary or hardly notice the cost. I find it ridiculous that some of you are acting as if you and your children are victims. Why did you send your children to private school? Probably a mixture of thinking state wasn't right for your child (or too rubbish) and no doubt because of the networking and educational opportunities. My kids are not medics but due to being at a private school, they got the opportunity to do work experience in some amazing places. A child at a state school would not have even known about it to apply in the first place!

I sent my kids to a private school so I have no problem with them but l also don't pretend that somehow by making this choice I am some martyr. I did it so my kids had an advantage over others to say otherwise is BS.

And come on the Daily Fail is just a divisive pile of poo trying to protect it's billionaire owners from having to pay more tax!

I think you are being unfair.
A student like this will have not had the same chance to compare themselves with others like themselves as one in an academic PS, a grammar school, or a state school in an area of professional parents and gauge they could stand a chance too.
Also, they will not have the background knowledge about it all.

They often will have been given the impression through their lives that certain things aren’t for them. They may doubt they have any chance of getting in. It could feel like a massive presumption on their part, and the fear of failing could be huge because of a feeling of ‘who do you think you are?’

It is up to teachers and heads to encourage a brilliant student like this, to get in touch with admissions at the good universities and check everything out.
Some head teachers can be appalling in their lack of knowledge and lack of encouragement. It is as if they are either complacent and think it isn’t their business, or think that university applications to top/difficult places could be seen as elite and those places are ‘posh’/ taboo.

I know I’m going to sound privileged here but what are the schools doing if not helping steer children to the correct gcse and a-levels? Irrespective of the cohort of children, surely all teachers are the same and have the same role to play. My friend has taught in both state and private schools and we have talked at length about these things and she performed the same role in guiding children to the right subjects regardless. She didn’t just leave the state school children to it and went home.

I didn't really take any part in this. I might have asked an A Level student about possible course and uni choices, but that was as far as it went.

I also think that schools in very under privileged areas aren't set up for this information. They're more focused on forcing children through the exam system in a culture that is often hostile to education.

Definitely, after this situation arose (before he sat his A Level exams) there was much discussion in school about having let him down. But as he was literally the first Oxbridge applicant the school had had, it was a new situation to them.

So the school should have telephoned Oxford. Telephoned the Sutton Trust. The failure is appalling.

They often will have been given the impression through their lives that certain things aren’t for them. They may doubt they have any chance of getting in. It could feel like a massive presumption on their part, and the fear of failing could be huge because of a feeling of ‘who do you think you are?’

I certainly had a good deal of that. Plus for me just going to university as the first person in my family to do so seemed a huge deal and applying for Oxford or Cambridge seemed like applying for astronaut training to go to the moon. Plus I was mostly applying to universities where the cost of living was cheap. Anywhere "down south" was certainly going to be too expensive. DD1 was bright and hard-working enough for Oxbridge and the cost side of things was not such a big consideration, but they don't even offer the sort of courses she was interested in.

This, definitely.
A student like this will have not had the same chance to compare themselves with others like themselves as one in an academic PS, a grammar school, or a state school in an area of professional parents and gauge they could stand a chance too. Also, they will not have the background knowledge about it all.

Also this. Imagine growing up in a community decimated by Thatcher's destruction of industry, where families are on 2nd & 3rd generation of being unemployed. THEN a possible Oxbridge kid. How does that child visualise scaling those walls?
They often will have been given the impression through their lives that certain things aren’t for them. They may doubt they have any chance of getting in. It could feel like a massive presumption on their part, and the fear of failing could be huge because of a feeling of ‘who do you think you are?’

When I think back to the Head of this school, genuinely lovely guy, but in no way set up to deal with this student's needs.
It is up to teachers and heads to encourage a brilliant student like this, to get in touch with admissions at the good universities and check everything out. Some head teachers can be appalling in their lack of knowledge and lack of encouragement. It is as if they are either complacent and think it isn’t their business, or think that university applications to top/difficult places could be seen as elite and those places are ‘posh’/ taboo.