Private school pupils banned from work experience in hospitals

[beelegal]

“Pupils who want to be doctors 'barred' from vital work experience at NHS hospitals - because they go to private school”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15007121/amp/doctors-work-experience-NHS-hospitals-private-school.html

This will be extended to all civil service jobs.
Bridgitte Philipson is a nasty bully. What next, private school pupils to sit on certain sections on buses? I cannot wait until the next general election, this shower need a wipeout.

Historic discrimination of any kind is deeply wrong whether that be on racial, religious or socio economic grounds or whatever.

But the key point is that they are historic wrongs and you don't fix those historic wrongs by recreating discrimination today but in the other direction.

All discrimination is deeply wrong regardless of which direction it goes in. It should be the best person for the job, role or place full stop - everything else is irrelevant.

Sounds like discrimination to me.

I completely agree with you that "cultural capital" plays a massive role in life decisions and life chances.

However cultural capital is not simply a private school thing - it is more influenced by the incomes and education of the parents and whether the child grew up in an urban environment with access to museums, theatres etc than say a child growing up in deprived rural Wales.

Yes they do! 25-30% of children in independent schools are on fee assistance, many on 75%+ bursaries

If you look at the A level results then there is greater disparity between the grades of high scoring London compared to the low scoring North East than there ever is between private and state schools.

Would anyone support "positive discrimination " of all pupils from North East over all pupils from London?

In all honesty, a few days work experience in a hospital whilst still at school gives little insight. My son, volunteered from age 16 in a care home for the elderly and at a school for those who were visually impaired. He was lucky and managed to obtain some work experience with a heart surgeon and all he did was stand in theatre looking at patients for 3 days. Those volunteering jobs taught my son to be the empathetic doctor he is today who treats everybody as though they were his grandparents and how he would hope they would be treated. He sought those volunteering roles himself as we had no ‘contacts’ . He has been recognised by his peers and his patients a number of times for his people skills. Universities take those who are likely to get the bet results- it’s a tough course that many don’t complete. 23 dropped out of his first year alone! So hospital experience isn’t necessary so doesn’t matter if you are state or privately educated!

Would they hell! The champagne socialists of London would never allow that!
We live in the NE so see this in action on a daily basis.

If DC were applying to study Medicine, among many other degree courses, from poor performing schools in the NE, their results would be considered contextually and they would indeed have consideration.If they were applying from well performing private schools in the NE, they would correctly not get any such contextual consideration as the examination performance of their cohort was good. Same in London. There are lots of other flags. There is a system in place, it's not perfect but it's more refined than just giving blanket consideration because someone lives in a particular part of the country.

But the thing we are discussing is giving a blanket refusal of consideration just because of the school a child goes to!
FYI do you know the numbers of NE children who go to top universities?
The best performing independent schools in NE are still behind those in the South/London, and behind many grammar schools.

Irony is of course that Phillipson scrapped the Eton academy partnership school which was planned for Middlesbrough. Now that would have opened up opportunities for a very deprived area of the NE. Shows you how much they really care about widening participation.

I don’t think l ever said anything about pupils though……

There have been Oxbridge summer schools that exclude private schools and specific outreach initiatives for ages. This is not a new thing. Nor is it a bad thing.

Yes and I'm saying it's a needlessly blunt instrument because there's huge privilege in state schools. You think that kids from deprived NE state schoold are going to Oxbridge summer schools? Of course they aren't, it's kids from wealthy, MC families using state schools.
My DD is obsessed with Classics but can't get on any programmes because she doesn't go to the right sort of school. So when it comes to supra curricular activities at interview/application she will be on a back foot. We can't afford the cost of paying for her to attend.

Exactly!!

This is what I find so annoying!

It won't be children on FSM on these courses. It will be wealthy children who live in wealthy areas, whose parents earn high incomes who have no need to send their children to private school.

You are wrong with the assumption that they are all middle class and wealthy state school kids who access these programmes. There are many underprivileged DC from state schools who access them and benefit greatly from them. So important to demystify Oxbridge and other elite establishments for them. Yes there are some middle class state school kids who can access them but some of the programmes do actually ask questions like mother's education level and other socio-economic indicators before they select.

Like all the virtue signalling MPs

Have you got data on the breakdown to support your claim? I am genuinely interested to see proper data.

But The point is the middle class children should be grouped with the private school children and not get access to them. If these programmes are all about widening access (which I think is a very good thing) then only the specific demographic should have access to them- the school they go to is irrelevant.

@twistyizzy not to derail the thread but how aware of the Classical Association? They offer and support students who may not be able to get information on studying Classics https://classicalassociation.org/nec-study-bursaries/#:~:text=The%20CA%20will%20not%20only,CA%20will%20reimburse%20your%20school.

Yes there are children on FSM who frequently access these programmes. However, there is another massive consideration for studying far away from home - affordability. That is the biggest barrier for a poor kid looking at a five or six year degree and/or studying in London. Oxbridge is actually a better financial option than most for poor kids as the accommodation can work out much cheaper.

State sector only

Again, have you got the breakdown of % of FSM children?

Exactly. The criteria should be FSM, not school type.

Oxbridge often helps very poor students with generous grants.

As do independent schools. 25-30% are on fee assistance but wouldn't be eligible because of the type of school they go to.

That's my point.

As I said other indicators are used in reality and state or private can legitimately be an access consideration. For example, in a private school an intending Classicist could have studied Latin and Greek from an early age and a state school child never having had the opportunities. I don't think a summer school is going to balance that out. It seems terribly churlish to begrudge less privileged DC those opportunities, just because some middle class ones might get through.