Law degree

[Acleme]

Hi My 17 years old daughter would like to study law in a Russel group university or via an apprenticeship degree. She knows that it is difficult to make it in that field due to fierce competition. I advised her to study surveying instead but she had set her mind on law. Does anyone knows what is the best way to get into an apprenticeship degree? Thanks

@Radioundermypillow Yes - 30,000 Study law. How many get to be lawyers! You have no idea I’m afraid and the op doesn’t like the truth. It’s hugely competitive to get a job and pretending it’s all ok is plain wrong. Look at what the lawyers are actually saying!!! Minimum criteria at university won’t get you a job - it’s not spiteful to point out the obvious shortcomings.

My comment about QM was about the experience of staff. It is clearly a well respected institution - but it is also a pretty shitty place to work (for some, not all).

Oh calm down. The OPs dd might not end up being a barrister or a qc but a Law degree has loads of skills that are great in other jobs.

My friends dd is a very highly paid buyer in retail - she has a law degree.

If she's interested in studying Law then let her study Law.

One of mine did a Theology degree and had no intention of being a priest 😆 He now works in banking.

@Radioundermypillow Condescending or what!? Are you Michael Winner back from the grave?

The op wants DD to have a career where there’s a decent chance of well paid work or she wouldn’t have suggested surveyor to DD.

Thousands of law grads have paralegal jobs at sub £25000 for years before they get a training contract. I have assumed dd wants to be a solicitor . Who said anything about being a barrister? There are a few law jobs with less competition and lower pay - criminal and court lawyers. However for any parent paying maintenance for a law student, job destination matters and the op wanted a law apprenticeship. They are like hens teeth and go to the very best students with the best credentials. Plus, anecdotally, used to bolster fsm and BAME % in organisations so caution is needed.

I personally think that is such a dangerous road. There is such a huge range of native speaker knowledge.

Lots of other subjects could involve parental support too. If your parent teaches secondary, or is an expert in English literature, or chemistry or anything. It’s impossible to make it fair.

Also a good % of native speakers take MFL outside school. How would that work?

I don’t agree with you that all native speakers will score 100% in the speaking exam either - and I am an examiner who sees a lot of native speakers. No, very few will get 100%. Those that do have worked very hard.

the italian A level looks like it is taking an easy route - which is a flag when the law exams are hard, all that learning, and then you have to do very intense professional exams (i did the law degree as i enjoyed the subject as a mature student). So it may well put employers off, who basically have their pick of the cream of the crop for any places where they are paying for your training.

anyone self funding, just seems risky as no gaurantee of any job at the end.

(i did go to QMUL for LLB and LLM in last few years and enjoyed it)

Clary spot on. Parents tend to help their children anyway. In my case my daughter does not need any help with any subject in sixth form.

@clary You see a lot of native speakers!! That’s the problem right there. I know you say it’s no advantage but culture is an advantage. It’s also a reason why MFLs are going down the drain. Other dc have had far less immersion and feel disadvantaged. If dc doesn’t need help she’s probably good enough already. With a certain amount of ease! However it’s not as challenging as it could be and she’s still no hard essay subjects. Listen to the lawyers!

It is the 5 in English that is a concern. Most law students have very strong verbal reasoning skills and typically achieve an 8/9 at GCSE English language and lit. All of my trainees are straight A star students with majority 9s at GCSEs. Training contracts are very competitive and the tests we put them through are very difficult. The LNAT is a good gage of compatibility and not just for uni entry so see how she gets on with that.

There are now virtual internships which you can access on law firm websites. I suggest you get her to do a couple to see how she finds it.

Thanks for your precious advice. It really seams that she will struggle to get into any Russell group university.

I have never said it is no advantage to be a native speaker taking A level MFL!

What I have said (and I stand by it) is that a) it is possible to gain a high grade even as a non-native speaker (yes you will need to work) and b) being a native speaker, even to genuine native standard (which is not that common IME) is not an easy pass to an A-star at A level.

@Acleme it may be that an RG uni is important for a YP's future in a law career (as I said, not really my area) but in any case as others and I have said, there are RG unis that are fine with a 5 in English GCSE.

I agree with those who say some essay work might be a good idea. But admission to an RG uni should be possible. Just look outside London. Why does it have to be London ut of interest?

@clary But it’s even harder for the late starters who are given no credit for their effort. Which, as you say is needed.

I also think business studies is a problem. Should have been maths or history. I don’t understand why she didn’t get better advice really. However maybe the 5 in English limited essay subject choices? It’s like everyone else with not the best subjects and grades, it’s important to choose wisely but also understand what the competition for jobs looks like.

Usually if someone wants London they want to work in London and get going with networking. Law is regional and some northern unis aren’t well represented in London as Oxbridge isn’t well represented in Manchester law firms.

Also Exeter consider GCSE results when assessing applicants and might consider PS where they want to see why you chose your A levels and why they are relevant to your chosen course - law. It’s all very well saying what minimum qualifications are but applicants are ranked based on criteria which includes GCSEs. This is a non LNAT university. The LNAT ones will certainly look at everything.

Honestly OP, if you ask on here and your dc doesn't have A stars across the board they may as well get a cleaning job.

It's Business now @TizerorFizz . It hasn't been Business Studies for yonks.

@Radioundermypillow So what? It’s still too similar to economics and no essays! What’s in a name? Elite unis certainly would not see it as good prep for law and we need to stop pretending it is - even if “studies” has gone. Do you know any young lawyers?

Several.

You are extremely tiring and aggressive, I'm not sure if its just your posting style.

My sister studied law at Aberystwyth.. She still works a lawyer 24 years later, and had a brilliant time. I wouldn't fixate on Russell Group Unis.

Clary it does not need to be in London. She will be happy to study in Nottingham.

I studied law at Surrey, which was excellent. And got a training contract at one of the big four. Close to London etc

@HairyToity law grads have probably doubled in number in the last 25 years. The law world has changed! It’s significantly more competitive.

Nottingham law is very good. Why Nottingham and not Birmingham op?

This Is from the Nottingham university web site. It’s fairly unusual in considering for extra curricular and other non academic achievements plus it’s looking at those pesky GCSEs again. The link between the A levels studied and law needs some thinking about too.

About as challenging as an English speaker studying English at A level. Please cut the rudeness.