Law degree

[Acleme]

Hi My 17 years old daughter would like to study law in a Russel group university or via an apprenticeship degree. She knows that it is difficult to make it in that field due to fierce competition. I advised her to study surveying instead but she had set her mind on law. Does anyone knows what is the best way to get into an apprenticeship degree? Thanks

I would avoid Birkbeck and Queen Mary. They have a terrible reputation as employers and staff dissatisfaction will trickle down to students.

There are very few law apprenticeships the only student I know that got one turned down a place at Durham for it which indicates what her grades were.

The OP is asking for advice on a parenting forum. Please be kind.

Do they? I did some postgraduate training at Birkbeck and the staff were fab.

I'd avoid London though if you don't live there OP. It's super expensive and lots do live there so live at home.

Yes they do. That’s not to say that the staff are not fab. It is more of a reflection on senior management and the way in which the voluntary severance scheme was enacted.

Dylexicdementor11 I am not trying to persuade my daughter to study law. On the contrary I have advised her to study something more vocational like surveying.

@MarchingFrogs It’s fun to have a go at RG universities but when looking for law work in London, RG counts!!! These unjnersutues supply at least 75% of the graduate starters in law firms. I suspect it used to be more. Certainly at the Bar it is.

So we need to remember for law, all universities are not equal and within RG, some are more equal than others!

I am a partner in a commercial law firm. It was very competitive when I joined the profession years ago and is probably even more competitive now. Having said that, the routes through are a lot more accessible and varied than they once were. Firms offer legal apprenticeship schemes (my own firm does), alongside traditional training contract routes. It is also possible to get a position as a paralegal and work up from there as she gains experience.
I trained at a big London/US firm. Competition in that market is fierce. Those firms are still very much compromised of people with exceptional academics and many of the lawyers there are Oxbridge graduates. However, there are lots of great mid tier and regional firms that do not have such "old school" entry requirements. Also, if she is interested in more of a high street firm, or criminal or family law, there will be wider smaller/local options.
I would echo what others have said about encouraging her to do what she enjoys as that is where she will excel. Incidentally I did a law degree and practicing in real life is a very different thing. Good luck to her!

@Acleme Do you know any surveyors? Is DD interested in it? It’s very very different from law. Law suits DC who like analysis and write well. Surveying is someone who has possibly studied geography or land management. Reading is an excellent choice for land management. They want AAB and her GCSEs are the minimum but the course is in clearing this year so there’s flexibility. It’s less competitive than law.

Key question - what does your DD want for her career?

@dylexicdementor11 For Law, QMUL is pretty good - in London. Decent employment rates and students are very much on the premises to network and make contacts. London law isn’t regional law!

@clary She’s half Italian and studying Italian A level. So how challenging is that? She’s studying Economics and Business studies. She’s lowish grade English and maths at GCSE. We already know LSE is a non starter. UCL, and probably Kings would be too as they can take their pick. For law, universities at the top end are looking for better academic credentials. As for getting a job afterwards - ditto.

Show me a uni who VS scheme hasn’t been satisfactorily managed in the eyes of the staff…

Ah now @TizerorFizz you know I think that A level MFL is still a challenge, even for a native speaker. Agree tho a high grade is probably more attainable for them in the MFL than perhaps another subject.

I never said she should target RG in London - that was the op. I think an RG uni outside London that would be happy with the GCSE 5 would be better - but she would need to work hard at her essay skills, given that 5 and the chosen A level subjects.

Thanks Vamoosh80

TizerorFizz whilst I am clearly not English mother tongue my daughter is. Thanks.

well literally her mother tongue is Italian - if you are Italian! But I know it’s not as simple as that.

It depends, doesn’t it, how much she grew up speaking Italian – if for example she spent time in her youth in Italy, if you spoke only Italian to her - at the other end of the scale there are students with a parent who speaks a different language who really only understand some (IME – MFL is my subject).

That’s why it’s not feasible to penalise students taking exams in their mother tongue – as in, it’s not possible to know exactly how fluent they are.

Tbf she has taken a hit in Eng GCSE, which, if she speaks Italian more fluently, is hardly surprising – so the win at A level Italian is one she may as well take.

I would perhaps have advised different A levels if aiming for RG law tbh, just bc other subjects show a greater grasp of analytical writing; but that's something she can work on, as I suggested.

@clary The Italian A level is much easier for this DD. She might as well do an Italian degree and convert to law! My DD started French at 11 and Italian in y8. Others do it ab initio. It’s nowhere near as challenging to do the A level or degree with an Italian mum as the A star will be achievable because the speaking element is going to get a very high mark. Probably 100%. Most MFL native parents work with dc to get these high grades once they get to A level. I’d have more respect if she had taken French or Spanish. She’s ducked the challenge.

Also some universities will not like Business and Economics. Too similar. She’s got no hard essay subject and that will matter. Law is so hard to get a job post degree too.

@clary it totally is possible to know - test them and get schools to declare what they know. Many dc doing MFLs know exactly who the native speakers are! Of course a French mum married to an Uk dad can hide it but it doesn’t make it fair.

Stand down @TizerorFizz

With those predicted grades she will get into a RG group for a Law degree. The 5 in English is possibly more of a concern, but lots of kids from dds school went on to do Law without stellar grades. State school, RG unis.

For example Exeter wants AAA and a 4 in English Language.

That doesn't mean all those people will become barristers, which is a different beast altogether.

If she got a 5 in English I would be questioning whether it’s the right job for her. It’s what I do for a living, and being able to express yourself very well in writing is essential. If she’s set on law, I would tell her to work on that skill.

TizerorFizz what a bilious and spiteful response. It might be due to a bad night sleep, you poor thing.

I'm afraid that's possibly what AI does nowadays

@Radioundermypillow I am not taking orders from you. Some of the unis mentioned are very competitive. Does she want Exeter?

All we know is that she wants RG. Exeter is RG and was the first one I looked at.

This is below the belt even for you.

If you can't reply without insulting people's children ("she's ducked the challenge!") then maybe don't reply?