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Play date with mum who agrees with education tax

924 replies

BonnuitMy · 21/06/2025 12:41

Please let me know if I’m overreacting. I recently overheard a new mum at school talking about a local private school closing down due to the education tax and how this is somehow a good thing. She’s now invited my DD for a play date, would you accept?

OP posts:
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strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 12:05

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 24/06/2025 12:02

I don't think you realise quite how much private schools directly save the government

Let's hear it for the private schools, the saviours of the economy.

Yep, you really should say that.

Which state services would you like to reduce by £3.5billion to compensate?

I mean it's true that it wouldn't make that much of a dent on the £116billion education budget. Let's do that then.

ParentOfOne · 24/06/2025 12:08

A biggie which some people are missing I'd that some parents go private because the state schools won't cater to the special needs of their children.

Yes, in theory they should, but in practice councils and schools are cash strapped and parents often have to sue in order to have their rights recognised. Even this website is full of such stories.

I know a family with a visually impaired child. It took them months of fighting to get a grammar school to amend the answer sheet for their test and print it bigger. No extra time needed, no subjectivity whatsoever in the diagnosis of visual impairment, no behavioural issues, no difficulties in learning, yet something as banal as printing a larger version of the answer sheet required months of battle. They went private because they feared that dealing with the school on a daily basis would have been impossible

ParentOfOne · 24/06/2025 12:10

cardibach · 24/06/2025 11:23

So if everyone has pre paid why is it making schools close? I don’t get it.
Well, actually I do, and it’s what I said pages ago - schools aren’t closing ‘because of VAT’ - they are closing because they’ve hiked fees for years CoL has reduced disposable income and/or their financial management is poor. VAT may have accelerated closure by a term or so in a small number of schools, that’s all.

Many tax experts think that prepaying does not exempt parents from VAT. Eg Dan Neidle has written a lot about it.

Another76543 · 24/06/2025 12:11

ParentOfOne · 24/06/2025 12:10

Many tax experts think that prepaying does not exempt parents from VAT. Eg Dan Neidle has written a lot about it.

It depends on how the prepayment scheme is set up. Many are set up so that they do work. The legislation is quite clear on what works and what doesn’t.

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 12:23

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 23/06/2025 20:37

Just the private ones though.
🤣🤣🤣

I didn't suggest therapy because you don’t agree with private schools. Nor because you support the education tax.

I suggested it because laughing at schools closing down - as you did here - shows either a very unpleasant character or trauma which could possibly be alleviated through therapy.

Trauma would chime with 'years of bullying'. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

BonnuitMy · 24/06/2025 12:24

I really don’t buy that any parent would support education tax and closing down schools. I don’t know what has attracted these people this thread, but it’s actually making me itch interacting with them. Who talks about children in this way?

OP posts:
Dealswithpetty · 24/06/2025 12:25

TheTealZebra · 24/06/2025 12:03

And how do you know that racial biases don't affect the children of people on this thread? Because you think Mumsnet should just be for white women? As a black woman, I find that deeply offensive.
Almost as offensive as your idea that private schools are the best way to reduce inequalities in education. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for having the "means to avoid state schools". The vast majority of people don't and that is absolutely a moral and ethical issue.

If there is any offence, you’ve caused it to yourself by creating a narrative from which to draw offence.

Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for having the "means to avoid state schools". The vast majority of people don't and that is absolutely a moral and ethical issue.

No it isn’t. It’s an economic one.

Another76543 · 24/06/2025 12:28

BonnuitMy · 24/06/2025 12:24

I really don’t buy that any parent would support education tax and closing down schools. I don’t know what has attracted these people this thread, but it’s actually making me itch interacting with them. Who talks about children in this way?

I really don’t buy that any parent would support education tax and closing down schools.

Oh they really do. Reeves and Rayner (both parents) have very openly said they want private schools closed.

TheTealZebra · 24/06/2025 12:36

Dealswithpetty · 24/06/2025 12:25

If there is any offence, you’ve caused it to yourself by creating a narrative from which to draw offence.

Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for having the "means to avoid state schools". The vast majority of people don't and that is absolutely a moral and ethical issue.

No it isn’t. It’s an economic one.

No, the offence is because you wrote "racial bias does not affect your children". In other words, you are assuming that your entire audience is white and making everyone else an outsider / and not part of this conversation. Racism offends me.

TheaBrandt1 · 24/06/2025 12:48

Re the social engineering they are wasting their time in our city on that score the state and private teens socialise together freely and - I hate to break it to you - are indistinguishable from each other.

PondUnderTrees · 24/06/2025 12:56

TheaBrandt1 · 24/06/2025 12:48

Re the social engineering they are wasting their time in our city on that score the state and private teens socialise together freely and - I hate to break it to you - are indistinguishable from each other.

True, and your last point breaks the hearts of many private school parents, who believe that it creates Measurable Difference. DS’s teenage friendship group is a mix of private and state kids. The private school kids, including one at a prestigious boarding school, are absolutely indistinguishable from the state schoolers in terms of confidence, academic or other achievement, and that ‘polish’ a certain type of socially-aspirant parent on here genuinely believes emanates from the privately-educated.

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 12:59

TheaBrandt1 · 24/06/2025 12:48

Re the social engineering they are wasting their time in our city on that score the state and private teens socialise together freely and - I hate to break it to you - are indistinguishable from each other.

Didn't you notice that the people saying that private school is about keeping kids apart were anti-private posters?

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats Today 12:04
Allergictoironing · Today 11:44

It really isn't reasonable to invent things you think we believe, and then tell us off for the stuff you made up.

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 13:04

Ah, add @PondUnderTrees to the list of anti-private posters who know what private school parents think better than they do themselves.

Allergictoironing · 24/06/2025 13:17

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 12:59

Didn't you notice that the people saying that private school is about keeping kids apart were anti-private posters?

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats Today 12:04
Allergictoironing · Today 11:44

It really isn't reasonable to invent things you think we believe, and then tell us off for the stuff you made up.

Edited

Actually no I didn't say it was about keeping their children away from the less desirables, but mixing theirs more with those they consider more socially desirable - a subtle difference maybe but still there.

Sort of like going to restaurant A not because it's got a posh name or location, or high priced, but because you prefer the food they serve there compared to restaurant B. A choice for a positive reason rather than a negative in their view. Others may make the positive choice of eating at restaurant B due to preferring the food there rather than the choice being negative in that restaurant A is more expensive/further to travel.

Dealswithpetty · 24/06/2025 13:17

TheTealZebra · 24/06/2025 12:36

No, the offence is because you wrote "racial bias does not affect your children". In other words, you are assuming that your entire audience is white and making everyone else an outsider / and not part of this conversation. Racism offends me.

If that’s the case then your energies would be better put to use advocating for greater equalities within state institutions, including our schools, where your children and my own, incidentally, (I have a mixed-race DC) have persistently faced systemic inequities that not only affects their level of educational attainment but, perhaps just as damaging, their self-perception.

My DC will be starting pre-prep in September and her education will be further supplemented by us, her parents. That’s not something that needs ‘a pat on the back’. It’s a requirement to limit the external influence of others who may choose to undermine her abilities/talents simply because of their own prejudices.

And, yes, I recognise that we are fortunate to be in the position we are. But, in all honesty, our involvement as parents is likely to have a greater impact on her level of attainment, confidence and self-perception than her formal schooling.

Araminta1003 · 24/06/2025 13:22

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats - you really do not understand that those of us who are 40 somethings, anti Brexit, with European sentiment do not want to get embroiled in petty very British class warfare of the past decades? Of which we want zero part and which we find completely irrelevant these days. You do not understand that we want a modern Government who looks to the future rather than to their petty university feuds of a bygone area? Do the rest of us who joined this country in good faith and gave it are all in terms of labour etc not matter? Where is the diversity in this policy? Where is the acknowledgement that things have moved on? Why do the remaining European countries with plenty of private schools not have these problems?
Last time I checked the Tory boys were finished anyway. Why embroil numerous school kids with special needs and from a hugely diverse background, in many cases, in petty tribal male dominated warfare?

I want a Government that looks to the future and improves education for all, in a fast moving technological world. I really do not understand why some preps schools have to close and what that is going to achieve. Other than probably more division, and more doubling down on classism because if you other people surely they gather their arms.

TheTealZebra · 24/06/2025 13:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PondUnderTrees · 24/06/2025 13:25

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 12:59

Didn't you notice that the people saying that private school is about keeping kids apart were anti-private posters?

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats Today 12:04
Allergictoironing · Today 11:44

It really isn't reasonable to invent things you think we believe, and then tell us off for the stuff you made up.

Edited

You’re putting words i didn’t say in my mouth. The kind of private school parents I’m talking about are the ‘getting your child up another rung of the social ladder and hoping ‘eliteness’ rubs off’. Usually phrased as ‘making nice friends’.

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 13:27

Allergictoironing · 24/06/2025 13:17

Actually no I didn't say it was about keeping their children away from the less desirables, but mixing theirs more with those they consider more socially desirable - a subtle difference maybe but still there.

Sort of like going to restaurant A not because it's got a posh name or location, or high priced, but because you prefer the food they serve there compared to restaurant B. A choice for a positive reason rather than a negative in their view. Others may make the positive choice of eating at restaurant B due to preferring the food there rather than the choice being negative in that restaurant A is more expensive/further to travel.

You're still inventing what you think our motivations must be.

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 13:29

PondUnderTrees · 24/06/2025 13:25

You’re putting words i didn’t say in my mouth. The kind of private school parents I’m talking about are the ‘getting your child up another rung of the social ladder and hoping ‘eliteness’ rubs off’. Usually phrased as ‘making nice friends’.

True, and your last point breaks the hearts of many private school parents

Still inventing...

Dealswithpetty · 24/06/2025 13:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I’m starting to doubt some things you claim about yourself. And while some others on here may persist in their argument with others I see no benefit in doing that with you. I see that we all have our limitation. There, now I truly am being patronising!

cardibach · 24/06/2025 13:35

Another76543 · 24/06/2025 11:40

Because lots of families can afford to get to the end of this academic year but have decided to switch going forwards. The VAT hasn’t applied for this entire academic year. In addition, many families are choosing not to start down the private route. Both of these things have meant falling pupil numbers at many schools, which has made some (especially the smaller ones) no longer viable. The VAT, business rates and NIC have been the final straw for many schools which were just hanging on. It isn’t the most expensive, wealthiest schools which are affected. Those parents can afford the fees (or have pre paid years ahead). It’s the smaller, cheaper schools which are being most affected. It is making private educated even more exclusive.

Exactly. It’s not the VAT. It’s everything else plus the VAT. With ‘everything else’ being something they can control - their financial management, outgoings etc could be made more efficient (as the state system has had to). If a school closes because it can’t cope, it was in big trouble anyway and on borrowed time.

Allergictoironing · 24/06/2025 13:39

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 13:27

You're still inventing what you think our motivations must be.

No inventing of motivations, or anything to do with motivations on either side of this debate, just correcting your misinterpretation of what I said.

I will however take a little bit of offence at @Araminta1003 implying that a) I was pro Brexit (voted against), am Tory (voted Labour), or want to keep status quo of the "petty tribal male dominated warfare".

And I'm not even anti private schooling as such, just don't see why it should be considered an essential item which is what the 0% VAT rate is intended for.

Araminta1003 · 24/06/2025 13:40

Sorry @Allergictoironing but VAT on Education is anti EU VAT principles so you cannot be a full Europhile.

PondUnderTrees · 24/06/2025 13:40

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 13:29

True, and your last point breaks the hearts of many private school parents

Still inventing...

No. The desperate assertion that there is some irrefutable difference between the privately-schooled and the state-schooled appears on here on here literally all the time in more or less self-deluded forms.