Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 6

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuation of previous threads to discuss VAT on independent school fees.

Personally though, if my DC had to go to a crap school, I would either homeschool or online school now, which I can do, precisely because I work from home mostly. No way would I be sending them to a crap school where they waste time and do not learn anything. Like many others, I had to homeschool 4 DC and work at the same time, so I have full confidence in myself to not actually need state schooling desperately anymore. There are so many resources out there now. The State should be grateful if they get my kids and more of my time and lots of taxes! And I expect them to be grateful. If they would like to penalise us, I will adjust our behaviour.

You are assuming the VAT will raise money though here to ask that question. Far from being proven.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/labour-ideological-attack-private-schools-backfiring/

Paywall link: https://archive.ph/Dzf8S

Great article, pretty much sums up the situation. Equality of outcome is always basically ‘ me see nice thing, me smash’ until we’re left with the lowest common denominator. There really should be some checks and balances to stop them trying this nonsense with children.

RR must be pretty sure that those 13,000 kids will be going back to private school - and no others leaving - since we've now been upgraded to also funding affordable housing, as well as the extra 6500 teachers, mental health support and cornflakes!

The only way to fund all that with education VAT money will be for the private sector to grow! What does she know about her plans for state education that we don't?!?

Did anyone else notice her doubling down on the 'our children' rhetoric, with a pause and a smirk?

Given that the black economy is growing - estimated to now be worth £223 billion annually, representing around 11% of the UK's GDP - the only way to get any tax out of those workers and businesses is a consumption tax like VAT.

It would be preferable if that was actually pursued and high penalties for off-book work, if course. Reducing the black economy not only increase the tax take, but also reduce the benefits bill, and also make the UK less attractive for illegal immigration.

More jobs for the public sector, then - chasing tax evasion. Would need more money to go to the Ministry of Justice, too. Prosecutions and fines for small businesses and individuals wouldn’t go down well if people perceived that high level corruption was not being dealt with alongside the more basic cash-in-hand type of tax evasion. Imo, black markets grow when people stop trusting there will be fair treatment for all and start to believe there is systematic corruption within society, starting at the top. Boris Johnson & co didn’t help much with that one.

Yes, there's an increasing distrust in the state, with people withdrawing from working and just taking. It's a spiral, and won't end well.

It's the culture of entitlement we've encouraged in the UK over the last few decades.

People want more, and always expect someone else to pay.

Agree. The anti growth and anti aspiration is coming back to bite now. Shrinking the economy.

I am glad she's U-turned on cancelling the funding for the Edinburgh supercomputer though.

It's entirely possible she only cancelled that funding 6 months ago in order to be able to unveil the new/re-instated funding yesterday with a big trumpet-trill and claim it for herself, but I'm still glad. Would be great if she also un-cancelled the STEM and Language programmes.

She’s a a fanatic, it’s not normal to hate children. It would be interesting to know what happened to her and her sister when they were younger that led to this, maybe we’ll find out on I’m a celebrity get me out of here in a few years.

‘More jobs for the public sector, then - chasing tax evasion.’

Maybe cut out those pesky selfish middleman and do away with the private sector altogether? There was never a black market in the Soviet Union after all.

Or maybe we have to come up with something where the left and the right thinking converge?
Like digital ID and tax returns completed by everyone and no cash economy at all. And enough police and criminal sanctions for those who pay the car washes in cash or the barber too or the gardener or the plumber. If you put the burden on the middle class person using the services you will get a better outcome. But it is the Tories generally who shout the loudest when anything like that is proposed? Because they also like cheap Labour.
And as a swing voter, I am all for it. I am happy to embrace state control if it is done properly and means a better outcome for all. But it has to be couched in positive terms of taking responsibility for your country, clean streets, clean public toilets, cleaning up your own mess and having a civic duty like they do in parts of Scandinavia, Japan and Switzerland. I do not think people here are even up for it. They love to moan and blame others.

As for Reeves, she clearly thinks she is entitled to everyone’s money and their children as well.

Things were better when the stiff upper lip was aspirational and being gentlemanly was seen as a good thing. Way before the Big Brother culture. You see it every day on the streets, the general disrespect. Road rage, litter etc etc Unless you have respectful citizens who value things and are taught to do so from when they are toddlers, it really is a fighting battle. The assaults and disrespect on teaching staff, NHS etc, it is all part of the general culture of entitlement and disrespect. And Labour is just as much to blame as Tories. Because Labour do vilify all the old English values including private schools. And that is just plain stupid.

For anyone still hoping that the VAT will improve the state education system, you may be disappointed. Despite the Labour manifesto specifically allocating the VAT to education spending, Starmer is now allocating it to affordable housing.

They are so bad. And bad at lying.

Just last week they had more to spend on WFA because they’d ‘fixed the economy’.

This week the results are even worse than expected and anti growth. I don’t know how they can proclaim anything with a straight face.

1.5% uplift for Education... 16% for Miliband's pet projects....

@Araminta1003 ,

I have (perhaps surprisingly) totally agreed with your last couple of posts.

But,

‘Because Labour do vilify all the old English values including private schools. And that is just plain stupid.’

In what sense are private schools a ‘value’. Should we regard them as an aspiration for all, as if a normal education could never be good enough?

They are, to me, a very mixed blessing. There is no doubt that many of them do provide a superb education. (There is also no doubt that many parents waste hundreds of thousands sending their children to terrible expensive schools). In return, though, there is a section of society who have separated themselves totally from the rest of society. They basically only spend time with the bottom half of society (in terms of income) when they are being served.

And this does engender an attitude of exceptionalism. Until I went to Cambridge and met state school pupils who were clearly smarter than me, I would never have thought of them as equals. And I have seen the same attitude in a large proportion of those who I have taught (and a large proportion on these threads, despite all the protestations). (And every single Etonian. Yes, a personal prejudice but I have never met a modest or pleasant one).

With the exception of certain elite schools on the coasts of the U.S, this societal separation from birth just doesn’t happen. A private schooling in France for many is seen as failure; they couldn’t cope in main stream education.

I would never want to ban private schools. I believe in a free society and parents should have the choice. But private schools are not the unalloyed blessing many think they are.

They basically only spend time with the bottom half of society (in terms of income) when they are being served.

This is nonsense. Pupils do not spend their entire life at school. Most pupils mix with others outside school. For example, my children mix with a wide variety of people outside school, be that through sport or other activities. Their friends come from all walks of life. Their interactions are not limited to school.

And I have seen the same attitude in a large proportion of those who I have taught (and a large proportion on these threads, despite all the protestations). (And every single Etonian. Yes, a personal prejudice but I have never met a modest or pleasant one).

Eton is not representative of the the vast majority of the independent sector. Even most other public schools are nothing like Eton.

@Another76543 ,

Yours might well, and maybe even 50% do, but the attitude amongst a large minority of pupils I have taught (not the majority but not a tiny minority either) and the experiences that they have aren’t made up.

It is a fact that a chunk of society don’t mix with the majority of society. Anecdote doesn’t negate this.

I’m not convinced that social mixing will be much better at state grammar or other selective state schools.

I do agree though that not every child at independent school have nice attitudes. Having said that, I’ve met plenty of unpleasant and arrogant state educated people (I say that having been state educated myself).

I'm not convinced there's much social mixing in schools in the real world.
I'm in Scotland so your state school option is catchment or Catholic or make a special appeal as to why you should get a non-catchment school. At primary the city catchment areas aren't geographically that big, so by definition you will be mixing with kids from your local area. I'm not very convinced that results in much social diversity - of the families I know at state primary in a well off middle class area, most are unsurprisingly middle class & highly educated. The people requesting a non-catchment school are in cheaper areas & catchment school has rubbish outcomes, or moving school due to bullying/teacher issues.
Most adults tend to gravitate towards with similar values and lifestyle to themselves - there's whole avenues of social science research on this. I'm not sure why we expect children to be so different.

She went to a number of inter-school chess competitions and got her butt thoroughly kicked by children from the local private schools. As did her sister. She's on public record as saying she thought they and their parents were snobs. She later felt the need to rewrite history and reinvent herself as a chess champion.

Normal people might think it's not much of a base on which to hold a decades-long grudge and then wage a campaign of destruction adversely impacting the futures of tens of thousands of children, but if you're narcissist with a fragile ego it's apparently enough to trigger a sustained bout of narcissistic rage.

Ha ha, it’s so childish and petty that it’s probably true.