Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 5

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a continuation thread in anticipation of the fourth one filling up…

www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4?page=39

Yes you did! @Ohwowohwow post covered all areas of this governments education policy and put the ‘informed, balanced and insightful’ PPs right in their place.

@Ohwowohwow have a pleasant day!

Children in state schools are being denied the right to excel and this is going to get worse.

That’s quite the blanket statement. Plenty of children excel in state schools.

I'll give you another blanket statement. People in areas that have low deprivation excel at selective state schools. Doesn't make it any less true.

As mine went to non selective state schools with very mixed catchments, I can only comment on the high number of kids that most certainly excelled.

Goodness, some of them must have got ‘ideas above their station’ as some of both DC’s cohorts are either training as or qualified as doctors and lawyers.

Well, looks like @Ohwowohwow didn't get the memo that they're supposed to be "bored" or "tired" of a thread that has run its course... very off-message of them to bump it further with their sadly-missed gems of wisdom

They don’t pay fees. They pay for boarding. I am sure you could ask for a financial statement to see how it’s spent.

They pay a fee for boarding.
Trust me, cost of boarding doesn't = 22k per year. The surplus from those fees supports the rest of their educational offer + facilities etc.
You can offer me no justification.

Does that mean you do not think there should be VAT on boarding?

Boarding fees at private school are subject to VAT.

Another blanket statement - and ‘plenty’ more don’t!

My point though was about the standardisation of education and the removal of advanced subject lessons.

Is it right to deny the ‘plenty of children’ that excel in state schools access to these advanced levels of education. I’m sure many of those that do advance would like access to them.

Taking them away from the national curriculum will give put them at a disadvantage. Won’t it?

My point though was about the standardisation of education and the removal of advanced subject lessons.

That wasn’t quite what you said though. State students aren’t being denied an opportunity to excel or become doctors and lawyers because 40 schools no longer get funding for Latin lessons.

But they ARE being denied the opportunity many kids in independent schools get. That's why it was introduced in the first place as a "levelling up" attempt.
Labour have now ended that opportunity because they only believing in leveling down.

It isn't just Latin though. They have also cut or drastically reduced:

• STEM access programme
• Advanced maths programme
• Behaviour hubs
• Language hubs
• Computer hubs

So basically any existing initiative to try to address imbalance in state schools.

It’s not just Latin. They’ve cut funding of advanced maths, funding of physics programmes, language hubs, youth music etc. That’s reducing opportunities available to pupils. The fact is, many state schools are denying pupils an opportunity to excel. Our local comp doesn’t even offer GCSE music, for example. Many state schools are now only offering one or two languages. Reducing these opportunities yet further will make it much harder to excel.

In my local authority 48, 23, 25 and 22% respectively, of pupils achieve grade 5+ in English and Maths.

In the selective schools the figures are 95 and 81% respectively.

Fee paying schools chart GCSE achieved rate differently in that they show attainment at % grades level 9 (A*A) and the figures in my LA are 84, 87 and 75 respectively.

Those that choose to pay for their children’s education because they can afford it or make life choices and sacrifices to do so, are not making these decisions with thoughts of how much better it will make their Johnny and Sarah (I’m not lambasting Johnny’s and Sarah’s), than other people’s Johnny and Sarah’s, they are looking at the numbers above and deciding on the numbers.

There was some hyperbole in what I posted, of course.

Many children from state schools go on to become doctors and lawyers and those that do are not getting above their station as I also alluded to. Aspiration and achievement are wonderful things!

The PP specifically mentioned cuts to ‘elite’ subjects: These cuts in funding for ‘elite’ subjects in state schools.

And, FWIW, I’m unhappy about the cuts to ASTM, which is the successor to the original Labour initiative begun in 2009.

I see you’re back on form.

‘Ideas above their station’ was a direct quote from a PP.

27% of UK med school students come from private schools. With approx 20% of 6th form students studying in independent schools, the figures are not far out of balance. So 73% get to med school from a wide range of state schools. The only station in their consciousness will most likely be the ward one.

55% of UK med school entrants come from non selective state schools and 24% from independent schools, according to the Medical Schools Council.

Honestly, you’re not going to feel any better about yourself no matter how many schools close. You’re really not.

To get back to the Reform point, the main parties need to take note and be scared. Many politicians in the main parties are career politicians lacking in real life business experience and international exposure. The danger is that Reform starts attracting people with real reputation who do have that experience in which case they may gain real traction at the next election. A lot of people do not go into politics because it seems to be a closed circle you sign up to at an early age. If Reform is promising something different and get away from its racist reputation, things will change quite quickly.

Nope, not feeling bad about myself at all.

But do keep going with your salient and witty posts. I find them most enlightening.

24% probably excludes dentistry if it is a MSC source (December 24 MSC article?)

I was referencing broad state/independent split but you are correct 54% are from non-selective state schools, which at least has increased from 47% over ten years. There are still issues with lower performing state schools' access but much is being done with outreach and WP efforts. The bigger issue for many DC is actually paying their way through med school. A 5-6 year degree course with significant debt and it is also very difficult to bridge funding shortfalls by working part time due to heavy placement loads. Initial starting salaries are peanuts too although long term prospects can be decent.

Oops, must be careful, will be accused of 🐿🐿-ology again.

I agree. They need to realise that Reform is gaining popularity because people are fed up with the 2 main alternatives. Lots of people have had enough.