Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 4

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuing the discussion about the impact of VAT on independent schools…

You didn't answer my question. Of course.

Answered it numerous times before, not got energy to answer it yet again.

So what is the background to the latest closure then? Was the school in trouble before VAT?

Surely you can look up the school?

Has it? Mostly seems to be the same pp.

It’s obvious a 20% tax will take out some schools not others.

It would be the same in any sector if they had hikes in one year. The damage is bad, which is why politicians usually don’t do it for votes.

I don’t think a single poster has said that the increase in costs will not contribute to a school being forced to close.

Interestingly though, a number of posters are choosing to ignore other factors, such as being half full.

What is the name of the school?

Exactly. It's all "hear ye another school is closing" without any detail on why. Like the last one with the huge back story, which was conveniently ignored.

The pp has shown numbers of closures are up.

As you’d expect with an extra 20% tax on any sector.

It’s damaging, and Labour only did it due to red meat votes not any kind of help to state sector.

@EasternStandardBut nobody will answer the question “Are any of the schools that are closing thriving, full or nearly full with static or rising rolls?” Of course the levying of VAT is going to have an impact-you would have to be stupid to think it won’t. And it is very tiresome that some posters are heavily invested in saying that people are that stupid.

https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/will-vat-on-private-school-fees-court-case-change-anything

“Carving all children with SEND out of this policy would carry a significant cost,” the Treasury warned, adding that while it had ”carefully considered” proposals to exempt special schools, it believed this would be “unfair”.

Ahem, is this not the crux of the matter? The Treasury cannot make this VAT policy stack up numbers wise if they exempt all DCs with SEND. So they are choosing to be ABLEIST so that their policy stacks up and makes some money.

That is not proportionate.

It is also why we have had the language of “removing a tax exemption” from Labour all along. They are not taking a benefit away! They are penalising children with SEND who have been failed in the state sector. Those parents are already paying for these DCs. There is no benefit/tax exemption provided by the State. Those parents are already subsidising the state by paying up in the first place.

This whole thing is complete madness and was totally and utterly bonkers all along. Height of GASLIGHTING by politicians. Cannot believe so many people fell for it. But hey-ho, same nation fell for Brexit.

I think the schools impacted will be in the lower band of viability but that is still a policy decision.

We can help businesses or charities in this case grow or we can put in policy to end them. That’s the case no matter what, whether it’s a school, business or say a hospice. 20% tax will take out a band of it and lose jobs.

It’s unbelievably stupid for a gov to try to damage a sector or businesses for votes. Especially if cuts to state education are happening.

Do you agree with the policy? If so, why?

The posts I’ve read are saying it’s a combination of costs for the schools and the education tax on the children themselves pushing them out of the sector, so it’s an increase in costs and reduction in revenue. I understand you’ve found one school where this might not be the case, but what is the point you’re trying make in all these posts? What is your acceptable number of school closures due to these spiteful policies?

Still not publicly announced?

@EasternStandardWe’ve been interacting on this issue for so long you must know why I agree with this policy. But for the avoidance of doubt, I believe that not paying VAT on private education is a tax loophole that I am glad to see closed. And we need to find money somewhere in a difficult economic situation. VAT on private schools
wouldn’t have been my first choice, but you wouldn’t have liked my other ideas eitherz!

I can’t say I retain anyone’s posts.

There are cuts to state education and Labour’s policies are driving cuts to welfare.

It’s not working to do what you’re after.

A legitimate exemption agreed across all Europe is not a loophole. As proven today in court.

Yes that one has been announced, the one from today is only email to parents

I know the generics of the arguments. I'm asking for specifics which strangely are not forthcoming.

It’s not VAT on private schools, it’s VAT on education services between the ages of 5 and 18. Private schools already paid VAT prior to January 1st.

Ah but only education services delivered in 1 specific setting. Any setting other than independent sector isn't being taxes, hence the court case.
It has been fascinating listening to the live stream today

Specifically though, what’s your point with all these posts? how many schools, specifically, is it a good idea to close as result of education tax? 30, 50, 100?

Education as a whole is still VAT exempt, they are just discriminating specifically against private school parents and their DCs. Further evidence for the discrimination is 1) how they have implemented it half way through the school year and with no regard to the impacts on minority groups that have no alternative (SEND, single sex, religious, specific curriculum needs of French/German/US and specialist ballet/music etc) 2) discriminating unfairly against boarding, kids who do not live locally cannot go to that school, its welfare - should have been exempt on the boarding element 3) discriminating by charging for sports after school which are simple clubs and demanding private schools stick kids in rooms with nothing to do for “childcare” instead.
The way this whole thing has been implemented from start to finish is purely discriminatory.

Secondly, further discrimination with regards to business rates because again, all remaining charities are exempt from business rates.

Politicians have unashamedly singled out certain children attending certain schools. They may as well have implemented a tax on all male children with red hair whose dad earns over 100k.

French/Germans etc are literally watching in horror at this type of discrimination against the children of their diplomats attending schools in their curriculum. We have not even yet heard more from Trump on US curriculum schools. Suspect more noise will come.

Complete and utter shit show all round @CurlewKate - there is literally ZILCH for you to defend here.

Plus for those of us who care about the economy on top of that, it is pretty clear that this type of policy will lead to countless higher rate tax payers with dual nationality (there are tons of them using private schools, somebody should have checked this simple fact!) up sticks and no longer contribute to tax take, when we desperately need them to. So the argument about paying your bit extra does not even stack up either.

If ones that were on the brink of financial collapse, they would most likely have gone bust anyway. I'm talking about accuracy of reporting. Nothing to do with how many is okay.

But it is down to VAT if the rate has increased by the amount in pp.

Are you for the policy? Or just opposing the closing rate posts