No exodus to state sector after VAT added to private school fees, say English councils.

[FruitPolos]

Article in today's Guardian. Interesting to note the comments from Surrey in particular given the discussion on Mumsnet about this particular area.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/mar/10/no-exodus-to-state-sector-after-vat-added-to-private-school-fees-say-english-councils

"Surrey, which has large numbers of children in private education, recorded a dip in the proportion of families getting their first pick of schools for September. But Clare Curran, the county council’s cabinet member for children, families and lifelong learning, said: “Surrey has not seen a significant rise in the number of applications for a year 7 state school place for children currently in the independent sector compared to last year.“For September 2025, 664 on-time applications were received from Surrey residents with children in the independent sector, compared with 608 for September 2024, a rise of 56.“While the percentage of applicants offered their first preference school has decreased for September 2025 [80.6%] compared with 2024 [83.1%], the 2025 figure is not dissimilar to the 2023 figure of 81.3%.”

DD's London comp has 40 places available for external 6th form applicants. Minimum requirement is six 7-9 grades incl English and Maths. Oversubscription criteria is ranking based on GCSE grades (9=9 points, 8=8 points etc). I suspect it's only worth applying if you're expecting straight 9s.

A lot of top grammar schools want to fill their MML and Latin A level courses which is another easy way in for private schools students. Or some grammars do IB etc - where you have to do an MML. For some you have to apply for 4 A levels so a way to get in, can be to include an MML. It is easy to look up which A level courses are undersubscribed by looking at the A level results. If you put that first and have strong GCSEs grades, then private school kids may well get the places. This should hardly come as a surprise as the heads of all the top grammar schools specifically warned Labour about this some months ago. They decided to ignore it.

In my day sixth forms had offers for all pupils, not just A level pupils - including GCSE resits and other GCSEs. Think they also offered some other courses too. Isn’t that a thing anymore? Or is it just in small towns where there isn’t a range of options? Definitely a thing in Scotland.

Bit of a mix.

DD's school have a new T Level course but from what I understand there are only 10 places available and likely to all be taken by internal candidates.

I did have a look at what is available where we actually live. The local comp only offers A levels, same for the next two that are further away. The nearest option that has BTECs and other courses is 1 hour 45 mins on public transport (train, bus, train, walk) each way.

London has loads of options but it did seems to be FE colleges that offered a mix and the 6th forms predominantly A levels.

Seems crazy to be complaining about elitism of private schools if you are overlooking the fact that post-sixteen school education is predominantly limited to the academic elite.

Post 16 seems to be a bit of a mish mash all round.

What is even more shocking is what is happening with post-18.

I have been utterly ignorant on what has been happening there - and I suspect a huge percentage of the population are. I knew that you now needed a student loan for fees and maintenance... that you pay back once you earn x amount a year and after that it's written off.

Not exactly great having a big debt millstone round your neck for years, but it's 'not real debt' and no you shouldn't expect the cashier in Tescos to fund little Johnny's degree in International Relations... etc etc.

What I hadn't realised (and I'm going to write it out here for those who have yet to discover it all - apologies to those who haven't been walking round clueless) is that you are now looking at:
Fee loan - 28.5k for 3 years
Maintenance loan - 40k for 3 years in London, 31k outside London
But... the maintenance loan might only just about cover your rent.
So add another 15k on top for everything else over 3 years.
Your degree is now costing almost £85,000 in London and just under 75k elsewhere.

However... earn over £62k and your child can only borrow a maximum of £4,900 a year.

So bank of mum and dad are now having to come up with over £10k a year per child. That's over 1/4 of net monthly income per child! If you have triplets you're basically fucked.

How is that remotely affordable for a huge number of aspirational families? Even if your child qualifies for the maximum it still requires significant input to make it affordable.

Where are the government advice schemes for parents that spell this out to you when they start secondary? Where are the government saving schemes to help parents fund their children through college?

Forget people worrying about whether private schools are elitist, in the next 5-10 years I predict we start seeing the whole concept of living away from home, or even attending a university at all, becoming the preserve of the wealthy.

Parents will also be very much wanting to have a say in what their children are studying and there will be an even bigger shift towards lucrative vocational type courses. Are you honestly going to help your child acquire £85k of debt for Anglo Saxon studies? Or Fine Art? Or even Philosophy? Yet what a tragedy if people stop studying for the love of a subject and merely based on the £££ they can earn of the back of it post graduation.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow
Yes, I only found out a few months ago how much I am expected to support my DS at university. I hadn't realised that the loan is not enough to live on for students from families with over £62k a year. I also hadn't realised that the loan has to be paid back as soon as you start earning over 25K and that it is paid over 40 years and interest rates went up to 7.2% two years ago when we had the fuel crisis and interest rates went very high.
I now think I will try to get my son to do a degree apprenticeship as he wants to go into finance or computer science anyway so there are relevant ones put there. If he does go to university, I might just pay for everything up front so he doesn't graduate with the average of 45k. I know that Martin Lewis doesn't agree with this but other mumsnetters are saying they can't believe how much the debt increases.

@Runemum - mine are pushing for degree apprenticeships too, but I feel they are not mature enough. I feel Covid has set them back emotionally speaking and I really want them to go to uni. We are lucky enough to be easy commuting distance from top unis in London.
I think people moving out of London need to consider future employment and uni options for their DCs too. It is so much cheaper if you can live at home and just do first year of halls to make friends.

I don’t think Martin Lewis disagrees completely with paying up front, he says it needs careful consideration depending on individual circumstances:

www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/should-i-get-student-loan/

@OhCrumbsWhereNow - students are expected to get paid work to subsidise their living costs. The system is based on the idea that they will be earning along side studying. (That nearly £10k difference between loans and living costs is covered by 15-20 hours a week at minimum wage)

But part time jobs in uni towns are hard to come by because so many are looking for work. Strongly suggest your DCs get part time jobs during their A levels - they can save before they go, the experience will mean they are more likely to get a job in a uni town. Plus some larger chains /supermarkets will try to transfer you to a local store when you move.

(It does give an unfair advantage for students who’s parents can just pay so they can just focus on their studies not having to spend spare time working, but this is a pro- private education thread so think perhaps most on here aren’t all that fussed about that. )

I was wondering whether it could be worth letting DC take out the loans, but us saving the equivalent of the interest charges in a savings account for them... but would this make any sense?

See the Martin Lewis link above, he considers this.

Thanks Icouldbevioletsky.
I've read the Martin Lewis advice in more detail now. Thanks for posting the link.
I think my son is likely to pay the loan back over forty years as computing and finance professions generally pay well so it makes sense for me to pay upfront if he goes to university according to the advice. As I am moving my son from a private to a selective state sixth form next year, I have this money for university. However, I hope he will get a degree apprenticeship and I am also looking at degrees in Ireland, which are cheaper but over 4 years. Not Dublin as accommodation too expensive.

@Araminta1003. I am also concerned my DS may not be mature enough for a degree apprenticeship but he is only in Year11 so I will see what he feels when he gets to Year13.
Unfortunately, we don't live near any good universities that he could commute to.

Post 16 seems to be a bit of a mish mash all round.
What is even more shocking is what is happening with post-18.

But it is only ‘more shocking’ if you ignore the very large number of 16 year olds who are not able to access A levels at their locally accessible schools/sixth form colleges. Who are forced to leave school. Yes 18 year olds wanting to access their preferred choice of university might find financial barriers but this is the same as those not able to go to university except those students hit those barriers at 16 when they are much less mature. For example, for my DN to access anything other than online courses, she would have to live out to attend college at 16 with all the living costs from that age. And if she got a job to help pay then the minimum wage for her age group is just £7.55 per hour.

Martin Lewis has also been trying to raise awareness on parental contributions and maintenance loans for a while: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loan-parental-contribution-tool/guide/

Online tutoring younger kids btw is a fantastic option for students to make money. Mine are doing it as well as teaching music (latter of course is reserved for the privileged with multiple diplomas in strings/piano/singing etc).

@Runemum - there are good coding apps already but I wonder if your DS could somehow get into teaching kids online coding skills in due course.

That is such a helpful link, thank you!

Yes, absolutely!

I have always thought that the English education system (not really sure how different it is in the rest of the UK) is too classist.

The whole system (especially if you think of the 11+ test, grammar schools, etc), tends to favour those who mature at very specific ages, and who are all-rounders.
Those who mature later and/or are not all rounders tend to do less well.

Not studying maths and English till 18 is very wrong, and is a big reason why our kids do well, by international standards (PISA etc), till 16 but not later.

The A level system is idiotic because it forces kids to choose what they want to do already at 15-16, since no combination of subjects lets you study everything and anything, so you can be undecided between medicine and biology but not between medicine and engineering.

In many other countries, instead, there is much less choice, everyone does maths and local language till 18, and only at 18 do you choose what you want to study at 18.

Does these countries you refer to also typically have 3 year degrees? Early specialisation at A level means shorter degrees are possible.

All those starry eyed mums pondering a third child need to read this info. I get airily told the students just “get a loan” so it’s not an issue. Sadly it’s not 1993 anymore.

Indeed, this is all grim reading. Nursery too expensive/not enough provision so early years compromised. State school sector on its knees. Private schools unaffordable. University education unaffordable AND unattainable depending on how your secondary education unfolds. All sectors of education contracting. Insecure global geopolitics affecting economies and job security.

Hard to stay positive after all that.

That is a fair point. My dh went to medical school in South Africa, his medical degree took a year longer than the UK one,because their 16-18 education isn't as specialised as A Levels.

True. But I think the advantages of a shorter degree do not offset the risks and downsides of early specialisation. Maybe they do for the kids who are very academic AND who already know what they want to do when they are 15, but I wonder how much of a minority that is.

In the US I think most undergraduate courses are 4 years, but the first year is often very generic.

In continental Europe, I think most courses are 3 years, followed by Masters of 1 or 2 years.

Many people have no clue how it works elsewhere and somehow think there is no alternative, but deciding around the age of 15 what you want to do after secondary school is neither common nor sensible

so you can be undecided between medicine and biology but not between medicine and engineering.

Chemistry, physics, maths and further maths would keep your options open between maths and engineering. You don’t need to do A level biology to study medicine.