Page 25 | How's the Private School VAT increase impacting you?

Heathbear · 09/01/2025 18:25

@twistyizzy - yes like some of those children. Like the children at Amherst who already have places for September at the other two Loughborough schools.

Schools will close, yes. It was ever thus - it is nothing new for private schools to close. The children find new places.

And @Araminta1003 no one is traumatised. Please do find a grip.

Ayechinnyreckon · 09/01/2025 18:25

Araminta1003 · 09/01/2025 18:19

Where I live in London even the private schools have to notify the LA of the kids on their roll so for us, this is simply not true. The LA is informed of the kids on their school roll formally by all the independent schools. It is a legal obligation to do so. It changed some years back.

There's a difference between having that information and being able to use it for other purposes.

strawberrybubblegum · 09/01/2025 18:26

Araminta1003 · 09/01/2025 18:15

@shockeditellyou - in London, when they are closing state primary schools primarily, the children are given a choice to stay until the school closes and then moved to the new school. They have months to prepare themselves and they often move with their friends. Why should it be any different for other children? I am not trying to be difficult. I just really do not understand.
Why would an LA want to penalise the local parents who have paid council taxes too etc by sending them miles away and not planning for their DCs. Especially if the Education Secretary is openly stating these children are welcome in state schools. Is this a financial issue? I just do not understand why there is no plan and process in place when it would make sense for everyone to have one.

Well they can't expect to be treated with the consideration reserved for 'working people's' children, can they?

BP was very clear about that already.

twistyizzy · 09/01/2025 18:26

Heathbear · 09/01/2025 18:25

@twistyizzy - yes like some of those children. Like the children at Amherst who already have places for September at the other two Loughborough schools.

Schools will close, yes. It was ever thus - it is nothing new for private schools to close. The children find new places.

And @Araminta1003 no one is traumatised. Please do find a grip.

Agree but 8 giving notice in 1 week as the starting point is not good. There are more coming through but not yet announced

Araminta1003 · 09/01/2025 18:28

The LA should always know which children they are technically responsible for, whether homeschooled or independently schooled. Is that not a safeguarding issue? I am shocked they do not already have this information. I knew it was an issue for homeschooled children but because my LA has the information on all independently schooled children, I am shocked that is not universally the case. That needs sorting out anyway then!

Heathbear · 09/01/2025 18:29

There are more coming through but not yet announced

@twistyizzy well no doubt we'll hear it first from you.

Heathbear · 09/01/2025 18:31

Araminta1003 · 09/01/2025 18:28

The LA should always know which children they are technically responsible for, whether homeschooled or independently schooled. Is that not a safeguarding issue? I am shocked they do not already have this information. I knew it was an issue for homeschooled children but because my LA has the information on all independently schooled children, I am shocked that is not universally the case. That needs sorting out anyway then!

They won't have a live feed updating them daily whether Jack in Yr1 of St Trinian's has moved out the area and Jane's arrived!

strawberrybubblegum · 09/01/2025 18:31

Ayechinnyreckon · 09/01/2025 18:24

Yes, it's a financial issue.

Let's say a private school of 300 children announced closure.

Option 1:

Private school seeks permission to provide LA with children's details.

LA spends hours, day, possibly longer working out which children are eligible for a school place in the LA. They write to the non-eligible children's parents. They spend time working out the responsible LA for the other kids, provide those childrens information to those LAs, write to the parents to inform they've done this.

The other LAs spend time working out if the child is their responsibility, then spends time working out where there's available places and where on the waiting list they should sit. LA allocates space to a child, writes to their parents and then finds out they don't even want the space as they're going to a different private school.

OR

Option 2
LA waits for parents to complete the in year transfer form and follows the usual procedure from there.

Goes from having to work through 300 children in option 1, to having to work through possibly 50-100 children on option 2.

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Or Option 3, the LA ask the school to send a communication to all their parents, asking them to get in touch with the LA by x date if they would like to take advantage of some planning the LA is putting in place to deal with the large number of new entrants.

They plan appropriately for the children whose parents answer. Just as they would for a closing state school.

Any who don't answer go through the in-year application process.

Not hard. Not much effort.

Apart from the actual planning... which they would do for a closing state school. Don't they think the class enemy children deserve that?

twistyizzy · 09/01/2025 18:32

Heathbear · 09/01/2025 18:29

There are more coming through but not yet announced

@twistyizzy well no doubt we'll hear it first from you.

I'm sure you will 😆 but you do know there is no law saying you have to read comments/threads and you can just scroll past?
All I'm doing is highlighting the consequences of this policy .

Kittiwakeup · 09/01/2025 18:32

strawberrybubblegum · 09/01/2025 18:10

Are you suggesting that the definition applies to you?

OK. Own it, I guess...

Edited

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What on earth are you on about? As usual.

NiftyTraybake · 09/01/2025 18:36

mumsthewordi · 06/01/2025 23:04

To private fee paying ...are kids/s still in private ? Are you comfortably still able to afford and happy paying it ?

To state, how do you feel? Have you been impacted by more kids in class or would you expect that to play out this year? Or perhaps you weren't supportive ?
Do you think state schools will improve ?

Full disclosure
A struggling fee paying parent of one kid only other is at state and my oh is an amazing secondary school teacher - we are a divided household indeed at time, but we've made choices best for us.

One of mine is coming out in September. 10% of her class are also leaving, and 1 in 4 of the other class in her year. My younger is going to stay for a couple of years until we get to a better break point. There are suspicions of neurodiversity with him so depends on lots of factors.

Just can't afford a 20% jump.

Heathbear · 09/01/2025 18:38

@strawberrybubblegum

Or Option 3, the LA ask the school to send a communication to all their parents, asking them to get in touch with the LA by x date if they would like to take advantage of some planning the LA is putting in place to deal with the large number of new entrants.

Which LA in your scenario? The one the school is located in or the several LAs where the pupils live?

What advantage do the parents get? To get to say we'll need a state place in September?

They still won't be told where the new place is as that will depend on waiting lists and vacancies at the point they apply. The allocation of places will follow exactly the same process it currently does.

Seems a bit pointless.

Ohthatsabitshit · 09/01/2025 18:44

Schools have closed before.

twistyizzy · 09/01/2025 18:44

Ohthatsabitshit · 09/01/2025 18:44

Schools have closed before.

At a rate of 8 announcements per week?

Araminta1003 · 09/01/2025 18:48

“And no one is traumatised.” @Heathbear - how would you know that?

If I would have to tell any of my children that they would have to leave their schools as they are closing and would have no back-up plan to explain to them what happens next and when and how, they would be traumatised. It is exactly why our state primary school goes out of their way to manage transition, why their are transition days in Year 7 etc.
Come on, this is ridiculous. These kids need certainty, like all children. Yes some will go to other private schools but others are left hanging with no plan for months. It is not acceptable. It would never happen in most other countries!

strawberrybubblegum · 09/01/2025 18:52

Heathbear · 09/01/2025 18:38

@strawberrybubblegum

Or Option 3, the LA ask the school to send a communication to all their parents, asking them to get in touch with the LA by x date if they would like to take advantage of some planning the LA is putting in place to deal with the large number of new entrants.

Which LA in your scenario? The one the school is located in or the several LAs where the pupils live?

What advantage do the parents get? To get to say we'll need a state place in September?

They still won't be told where the new place is as that will depend on waiting lists and vacancies at the point they apply. The allocation of places will follow exactly the same process it currently does.

Seems a bit pointless.

So why do they do it for state schools closing, if it's so pointless?

Or do they actually plan a bit better than 'depending on waiting lists and vacancies at the point they apply' for those favoured children? As outlined in the guidance document.

Ayechinnyreckon · 09/01/2025 18:55

strawberrybubblegum · 09/01/2025 18:31

Or Option 3, the LA ask the school to send a communication to all their parents, asking them to get in touch with the LA by x date if they would like to take advantage of some planning the LA is putting in place to deal with the large number of new entrants.

They plan appropriately for the children whose parents answer. Just as they would for a closing state school.

Any who don't answer go through the in-year application process.

Not hard. Not much effort.

Apart from the actual planning... which they would do for a closing state school. Don't they think the class enemy children deserve that?

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This is what happens though - the school announces the closure and supports the parents to either contact other local privates or the LA.

strawberrybubblegum · 09/01/2025 19:01

Kittiwakeup · 09/01/2025 18:32

What on earth are you on about? As usual.

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If you're struggling with understanding, maybe my definitions will help.

Heathbear · 09/01/2025 19:04

Araminta1003 · 09/01/2025 18:48

“And no one is traumatised.” @Heathbear - how would you know that?

If I would have to tell any of my children that they would have to leave their schools as they are closing and would have no back-up plan to explain to them what happens next and when and how, they would be traumatised. It is exactly why our state primary school goes out of their way to manage transition, why their are transition days in Year 7 etc.
Come on, this is ridiculous. These kids need certainty, like all children. Yes some will go to other private schools but others are left hanging with no plan for months. It is not acceptable. It would never happen in most other countries!

Oh be a parent!

In your entirely fictional scenario because your children aren't at private schools are they.... if your children are traumatised because you can't confirm which school they will attend in 8 months time then you're done a shit job of explaining what's going to happen.

At KS1/early KS2 you tell them it will sort itself out - which it will
At late KS2/secondary you explain what will happen and when.

No one needs to be traumatised!

ICouldBeVioletSky · 09/01/2025 19:08

Ayechinnyreckon · 09/01/2025 18:55

This is what happens though - the school announces the closure and supports the parents to either contact other local privates or the LA.

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This isn’t what happens - if parents now contact the LA to say “we’ll need a space i. September, the LA refuses to engage at all until the summer holiday.

They don’t, as PP proposed “plan appropriately for the children [who need a place] . Just as they would for a closing state school.”

They could, they should, but they don’t.

EHCPerhaps · 09/01/2025 19:09

Araminta1003 · 09/01/2025 13:51

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66fd4f0a080bdf716392eccf/Opening_and_closing_maintained_schools_2024.pdf

To job people’s memories on the detailed statutory process for state school closures.

Zero, nilch, nothing in sight for private school closures directly caused by the Labour Party. There should have been detailed consultation and a process. Especially for SEND and rural schools - look at the precedent in the state system. Illegal political interference all round!

I couldn’t agree more

Liddlemoreaction · 09/01/2025 19:15

Heathbear · 09/01/2025 18:25

@twistyizzy - yes like some of those children. Like the children at Amherst who already have places for September at the other two Loughborough schools.

Schools will close, yes. It was ever thus - it is nothing new for private schools to close. The children find new places.

And @Araminta1003 no one is traumatised. Please do find a grip.

It’s seems most of the closing schools are ‘consolidating’ in some way. As are state schools because of our falling child population.
The idea that children are traumatised by changing schools or because of the horror of going to a state school is absolutely fu king insulting.

Mirabai · 09/01/2025 19:24

Liddlemoreaction · 09/01/2025 19:15

It’s seems most of the closing schools are ‘consolidating’ in some way. As are state schools because of our falling child population.
The idea that children are traumatised by changing schools or because of the horror of going to a state school is absolutely fu king insulting.

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No one needs to be traumatised!

Hmm the reason I’m on this thread is due to the damage that will be done to SEND kids. Many are only in private education because they couldn’t cope with mainstream state schooling or the school couldn’t cope with them.

Those are the kids for whom this will be traumatic. Are you genuinely unaware or do you just not care?

Kittiwakeup · 09/01/2025 19:32

strawberrybubblegum · 09/01/2025 19:01

If you're struggling with understanding, maybe my definitions will help.

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Comprehension is fine thanks. What I struggle with is the painful verbosity of your posts.

Kittiwakeup · 09/01/2025 19:33

@strawberrybubblegum the paranoia of your posting is a tad unsettling too.