How's the Private School VAT increase impacting you?

[mumsthewordi]

To private fee paying ...are kids/s still in private ? Are you comfortably still able to afford and happy paying it ?

To state, how do you feel? Have you been impacted by more kids in class or would you expect that to play out this year? Or perhaps you weren't supportive ?
Do you think state schools will improve ?

Full disclosure
A struggling fee paying parent of one kid only other is at state and my oh is an amazing secondary school teacher - we are a divided household indeed at time, but we've made choices best for us.

Should that be interpreted as an Echo Chamber facebook group? Certainly not the experience of my network. Even at the more expensive school we are only talking £8k-£10k per year. Many parents will spend that on a few nice meals. The interest rate increases over recent years alone will cover the cost. This seems to mainly be political posturing.

Well said 👏👏👏

Maybe but still over 20K parents is a pretty decent chamber. To be fair Labour have been in their own echo chamber implementing this policy hence their refusal to engage with the sector. They have ignored and downright refused to speak to schools/parents/kids etc.

You must know some wealthy people, certainly not the type of people I know who spend 8-10K per year on meals out!

Exactly. Not VAT - the mis-management and financial failings that came before it.
I doubt anyone will miss most of these schools, the ones that had a handful of pupils, or 300 pupils spread over 12 year grps.

The parents will send them to other private schools - securing THAT school’s future or possibly, the horror!, send their child to local state school which despite all the lies on Education Not Taxation aren’t hellish and have spaces.
I saw one comment from our region were someone had demanded to know how many places where in the most popular ( for now) state school in the county and was told ZERO. Cue rant. And obvs no mention of the other 4 schools within a mile of that one that DO have places. Because if little Emmy couldn’t go to the absolute BEST state school then mummy and daddy were just going to have to ‘sacrifice’ even more for her future at prep.

Talk about political posturing? BP and Starmer said "no evidence that schools will close. They will adapt". Now that's an echo chamber!

Having a 1 term surplus isn't financial mismanagement if you have a fairly steady cohort. Labour have destabilised the cohorts thro8gh VAT and then further chucked the bombs of NI increase + business rates PLUS told schools to absorb the VAT. Very few organisations could cope with that in the space of 3 months, no matter how well run they are.
Remember Labour chose to do all this in a 3 month period, a cliff edge. No staggered introduction.

And the award for the Most Original Post of the Day goes to….@Liddlemoreaction , for invoking what (s)he perceives to be comedy posh names! Just dazzling in its brilliance and ingenuity!

Oh and [insert stereotypical state school names] do get to go to the top of the list if their school closes, as the LA will proactively coordinate the provision of extra places at other schools well in advance of the move.

But let’s not get bogged down in the actual facts, eh.

Exactly. It was such a sledgehammer approach, no time for schools to adjust or for parents to make plans.

“Even at the more expensive school we are only talking £8k-£10k per year. Many parents will spend that on a few nice meals.”

That is nonsense and you are referring to the uber-elite which will purchase vintage Dom Perignon whilst sunning themselves on a sun terrace in St Moritz. That will be a small minority in the 600k families and from what I hear, many are swapping Milan or Zurich for London now, in any event.

Ok. So you’re ignoring the fact you’ve been called out as a bigot. And not really understanding the ridiculousness of my comment but have tried to analyse it in terms of reality. Duane? Are you kidding me, not in the UK or in this century! Clemmies, they are Short!

Well, firstly because many private school closures happen extremely suddenly, and aren't telegraphed months in advance to give people time to plan. So unless private schools are willing to tell people that they are looking to close in 3 months' time, it will never happen. Funnily enough, private schools don't tell people they are about to run out of money because then it's almost guaranteed they will fail.

And what do you expect the LA to do if a school (a completely private enterprise) phones them up and says, we're unlikely to survive beyond the end of next term. Find an entirely empty school to put them all, just in case? Of course not. Most of the private school children will go to other private schools, and the LA will absorb the new kids as they always do. In the meantime, the LA will concentrate on children already in the system, or who are actively needing a new school place. Having extra capacity hanging around in case a private school goes under is very, very far down their list of priorities.

I'm fairly sure the LA would deal with an academy closing a school in exactly the same fashion. The LA can only plan in advance for other LA controlled schools closing because, as an LA school, they will have complete transparency over the financial and operating data.

Should that be interpreted as an Echo Chamber facebook group? Certainly not the experience of my network. Even at the more expensive school we are only talking £8k-£10k per year. Many parents will spend that on a few nice meals. The interest rate increases over recent years alone will cover the cost. This seems to mainly be political posturing.

Wait... what? Beyond the absudity of spending £10k on a few nice meals, in what world does the word "only" qualify a sum of £8k-£10k a year?

Talk about echo chambers, I don't know people who think like this...

Can you give a concrete example of this happening? Because academies and maintained schools are bound by the (statutory) Schools Admissions Code, which governs in year and standard admissions points. The Adjudicator takes a very dim view of schools and LAs that do not comply with this.

Furthermore, it also deals with school closures:
"2.33 Where a maintained school or Academy is to be closed, the local
authority must collaborate with all schools in their area to consider the best way
to secure provision for children in other local schools."

Note that the SAC does not cover the closure of independent schools, what with then being independent and all. You pays your money and you takes your chances....

“And what do you expect the LA to do if a school (a completely private enterprise) phones them up and says, we're unlikely to survive beyond the end of next term. Find an entirely empty school to put them all, just in case? Of course not. Most of the private school children will go to other private schools, and the LA will absorb the new kids as they always do. In the meantime, the LA will concentrate on children already in the system, or who are actively needing a new school place. Having extra capacity hanging around in case a private school goes under is very, very far down their list of priorities.”

@shockeditellyou - that is incorrect information. A lot of the private schools are giving the parents at least one term’s notice and the LA have plenty of time to plan.
You also cannot assume anymore that “most of the private school children will go to other private schools”. They do not want to! Which part of this debate have you not been following?

Look nobody is going to win if there is no PLAN especially not rural areas or SEND. The DFE has to come up with an urgent plan and funding to make up for Labour’s utter failure.

The whole point we are making is that there has to be statutory guidance now urgently on the closure of independent schools and LA duties and emergency funding. How many more schools need to go bust before this Government acts upon the duty of care they owe ALL children.

“Note that the SAC does not cover the closure of independent schools, what with then being independent and all. You pays your money and you takes your chances....”

More nonsense.
You pay privately you are still entitled to NHS care, just like everyone else.
Every private school children affected by school closures is as a matter of common law principle entitled to the same treatment as state school kids.

People do not sign away their right to state education by temporarily attending a private school. That is utterly not the case. It is also exactly why state sixth forms that are selective have to, by law, count GCSEs taken in independent schools in exactly the same way, allocating the same point scores.

LAs have no obligation to deal with private school closures. They do have an obligation to find school places for anyone who applies for one, following their own (school admission code-compliant) processes.

I have yet to see any LA state that it cannot find spare places for the supposed extra rush of people now looking for state places after their private school went under. Can you show, with data from the LA itself, where an LA has been unable to offer a child a school place because of the increased demand that has arisen from closure of a private school? Not just where someone didn't get their school place of choice?

Yes. Alternatively Labour could do a Greece and say oops what have we done, let’s call the whole thing off. Unlikely.

@shockeditellyou - this Government has deliberately interfered in the independent education sector AND IS CAUSING school closures. Therefore, it is only right, that the statutory guidance is updated to include independent school closures! The spirit of the guidance is schools deliberately closed. This is no different!
It won’t necessarily be a bad thing if funded by Central Government. If LAs can get back control over some rural schools where there are not enough places or SEND schools, what exactly is the problem? Win win for all.

A few children leaving a private school because they cannot afford the VAT is a completely different situation than multiple private schools going bust with thousands of children without a school place. The latter warrants a clear plan and statutory guidance and funding. Especially if deliberately caused by the Government themselves. The fact we are arguing this in itself is hugely embarrassing for a Western democracy!

Are you equating taxing private education with compulsory purchase? Surely it’s more like you buy a house in the countryside and then the field next door is rezoned so new homes can be built and your neighbours are happy because there are going to be homes for those without and community facilities and you are sad because while you still have your home you are going to have to pay for a hedge if you want to maintain your privacy and you will lose your view?

Tax laws change. They change to reflect what the majority think is fair and reasonable.

Yes, here you go.

Haringay Council set out various proposals to close/merge primary schools. They outline a consultation process which I don’t suggest would be appropriate/necessary/workable here. But they also summarise the options for “re-housing” the displaced pupils in other schools - no suggestion that families will have to wait for the closures to take place and then call up the council a few weeks before they actually want a place!

https://news.hackney.gov.uk/proposed-changes-to-hackney-primary-schools/

Academies - if an LA and an academy agree to close an academy:

“Academy trusts will need to plan ahead to ensure that any closure takes place in good time. Relevant local authorities will be able to advise on the availability of alternative places and will be required to run a preference exercise to find alternative places for any displaced pupils.”

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66fd1134a31f45a9c765efaa/Closure_of_an_academy_by_mutual_agreement_2024.pdf

I’m not sure what a “preference exercise” entails but it’s a safe bet that this isn’t being undertaken in relation to the independent school closures.

While the announcements of independent school closures are sudden, the closures themselves aren’t - those I’ve read about are effective in the summer meaning places aren’t needed until September. So plenty of time to plan!

While the announcements of independent school closures are sudden, the closures themselves aren’t - those I’ve read about are effective in the summer meaning places aren’t needed until September. So plenty of time to plan!

So, what you're saying is that the apocalyptic bleating from the usual suspects may well not turn out to be true, in time?

“So, what you're saying is that the apocalyptic bleating from the usual suspects may well not turn out to be true, in time?”

No , thar poster said the precise opposite. The LA/LAs have been given plenty of time to plan to accommodate these children. It’s just Phillipson has forgotten that there is a legal process for this kind of thing and that ALL children are children (not alien cash machines) and deserve the same rights and access to state education. She clearly needs a legal crash course in the basics, just like her fellow compatriot Rachel Reeves needs to urgently revisit her 123 of basic Maths and taxation and what an economy actually is.

Oh gosh you’d love to think you’d scored a minor gotcha wouldn’t you.

But funnily enough that’s very obviously not what I’m saying, because (at the risk of repeating myself) LA’s are refusing even to entertain applications for places for September until the summer holiday. But they’ve made it clear that they’re not going to show these children the same courtesy they’d rightly show “Our” state school educated from closing schools and make any plans or additional provision for them - despite having plenty of time to do so. And some councils have confirmed they have no places at all. Fair Access Protocol can be invoked only when a pupil has been out of school for 4 weeks and even then a process must be followed - any pupils relying on it aren’t going to be getting a school place after 4 weeks and 1 day. But again, they’re not “Our” children but a bunch of privileged poshos who probably deserve it.

So putting aside your hyperbole there’s really nothing to suggest that the situation will improve between now and September, is there?